I'm Stumped!

[Buck]

Hey guys. What is it an ndication of when the colorful Pin Wheel starts spinning
 5,10,15 sec or longer than usual between commands?

[jchuzi]

There are any number of possibilities. A bit more information would be helpful:

1. Which OS are you using?
2. What is the hard drive capacity and how much free space does it have?
3. How much RAM is installed?
4. Does this happen with every application or a particular one? Be as specific as possible regarding the exact circumstances.
5. Which Mac model are you using?

The problem could be caused by having a hard drive that is too full or is developing bad blocks, running a memory-intensive app that requires more RAM, running out of space for swap files, having directory damage, etc. The more information that you provide, the easier it will be to suggest a diagnosis and remedy.

[Paddy]

And sometimes a simple restart will solve the problem. Some apps - like Safari, for instance, seem to still have "memory leaks" - where they consume memory, but fail to release it back when done. Eventually, things become slooow as a result.

So try a restart, along with answering the rest of Jon's questions.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa;j...6&#12184126

[FLASH1296]

I have a hunch.

You have a minimal amount of Ram.

[Buck]

I've run Applejack & did the P-ram think. Seems to fix it somewhat but not for long.

Machine Name: eMac
Machine Model PowerMac4,4
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (2.1)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 800 MHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
Memory: 256 MB
Bus Speed:100 MHz
Mac X 10.4.11

More info:

Format : Mac OS Extended (Journaled)   

Capacity : 55.8 GB (59,888,222,208 Bytes)
   
Available : 46.9 GB (50,323,144,704 Bytes)
   
Number of Folders : 26,758   
Number of Files :106,736

[jchuzi]

Hard drive free space is not an issue but RAM definitely is. 256 MB is barely adequate to run the OS. Add any apps and you're hurting. You should have a bare minimum of 512 MB and I would recommend going all the way to 1 GB, which is the maximum that your machine can handle.

In the meantime, run the diagnostics described in Mac OS X - Using Disk Utility to Repair a Disk. SMART (described in that article) is not infallible except if it gives the drive a failing grade. Then, you can believe it. If SMART says that the drive is OK, maybe it's true and maybe not. At any rate, running those things won't hurt. Where you are really hurting is the amount of RAM.

[Paddy]

Flash is dead on. 256 MB of RAM is the absolute minimum amount of RAM needed to run 10.4 and I frankly don't advise anyone to run any recent flavor of OS X without at least 1GB!

If you start up Activity Monitor (Utilities->Activity Monitor) and click on the Memory tab, look at the bottom part of the window and tell us what it says for Page Ins and Page Outs. My guess is that your Page Outs will be very high in relation to your Page Ins. You can even see (in Terminal) how often this is happening, but I think that is probably unnecessary as I have little doubt that the problem is sheer lack of RAM.

Info from Apple on RAM: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1342

Very good explanation of what is happening and why your system is slow:

http://macosx.com/forums/mac-os-x-system-m...ot-fashion.html

QUOTE

OK, to summarise what it means, your computer has a certain amount of RAM, which is its "memory". It simulates more RAM by allowing extra data to be saved to the hard disk, which is known as Virtual Memory.
To do this, it breaks your memory space up into "pages". Applications that need access to data that is in memory call the data by page. If an application calls a page and it is in the RAM, then it is a "page in" occurs. If an app calls for a page from memory, and that page is currently stored on the hard disk and has to be read back into the RAM, then a "Page Out" occurs.
A "Page-out" slows the operation of the system down because it has to read the data from a hard disk into RAM first, rather than reading straight from the RAM. Hard disks take about 300 times as long to transfer a page of data, which adds up to slow performance.

If page-outs exceed page-ins, you definitely don't have enough RAM. Ideally, page-outs should be less than 20% of the number of page-ins (the fewer page-outs, the faster your machine is performing) On my machine, I aim for less than 5%.

Assuming that you've probably got 2 128MB RAM modules in there right now, I'd strongly suggest that you spend $30-$40 and get two 512MB modules ASAP.

http://www.18004memory.com/apple-emac-700-...4lla-.asp?pl=rs

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/_memory-i...33_DIMM_575.asp

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20Wor...ng/133SD512328/

I've dealt with all three suppliers in the past - the last two are extremely good - but I never had any problems with 1800's RAM either.

Someone here might have a couple of sticks lying around too - if I did, I'd send them to you.

[jchuzi]

Here's food for thought:

Even though RAM is cheap, do you want to put any money into a computer that is officially obsolete (Apple's designation)? It was discontinued as of May 2003 and you already have the maximum OS that it can run. As time goes on, OS 10.4 will be less and less able to cope with new apps. You may be forced to upgrade just to be able to access websites that have newer standards.

If you have some spare cash, consider investing in a new computer. If you like desktops, the new iMacs are outstanding and you'll be amazed at the difference in performance between any one of them and your eMac. That said, the cheapest and most cost-effective way to improve performance is to add RAM so let your budget be your guide.

[Buck]

I really love all the info I'm getting here.
But I must say that I've had this emac as of 06 and never
had an issue as this until resently.
I have never had more than 512 Mb.

[Paddy]

Buck, if you can look at Activity Monitor and post the info you see there here, we might be able to shed some more light on what is happening. If you can give us all the memory info from the bottom of the table (Free, Wired, active etc.) and the page-ins and outs, that would be a start.

What applications are you running when you see this? As I've noted - Safari has had memory leaks for eons now - it's a well-known issue. Browsers in general tend to be problematic in this area.

Have you changed anything - new apps, what you're doing etc.?

However, nothing is going to change the fact that you really don't have enough RAM. And unless you're planning on buying an Intel Mac soon, it's worth it to spend a little to get reasonable performance.

[Xairbusdriver]

QUOTE

never had an issue as this until recently

That is no guarantee that you won't have any and even more problems. Are you expecting each new version of an app to be no bigger or require no more memory than the old version? Assuming that were even possible, are you expecting all those apps to continue to be supported? As many say, all programs have at least one bug, but most have dozens. Most developers don't have the time (after trying to keep up with OS improvements) to dig down to the bugs that remain in their earlier apps.

I'd say nearly five years of use with 512MB of RAM is pushing the limits very, very close to the edge. And the "edge" is a dangerous place to operate!

QUOTE

I have never had more than 512 Mb.

And we all know that Bill Gates said no one would ever need more than 256K, right? I once had an Apple ][ with only 16KB, but it couldn't do a thousandth of what most smart phones can do now.

[jchuzi]

QUOTE(Buck @ Feb 27 2011, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never had more than 512 Mb.

How much memory do you have? Your System Profile said 256. Did you install 512 but SP only shows 256? Did you remove a module?

As far as keeping the computer because you like it, there comes a time when you hit the law of diminishing returns. I had a 2000 Honda Accord EX V6 for over 10 years. It was the nicest car that I ever owned. The transmission was failing and the cost of a new one was greater than the book value of the car. I replaced it with a 2011 Honda Accord EX-L (4 cylinder) that is OK but I don't like it as much as the 2000. When my wife turned 50, I told her that I was going to replace her with two 25s. Six weeks later, I was discharged from the hospital...

[Bbob]

Here's a suggestion that might help, gleaned from the early days of really expensive RAM. Have only one application open at a time. When you leave an application, be sure you Quit it--don't just close the window. I have been unable to convince my wife to do that, but with enough RAM it isn't a problem.

[Paddy]

QUOTE(jchuzi @ Feb 27 2011, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE(Buck @ Feb 27 2011, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never had more than 512 Mb.

How much memory do you have? Your System Profile said 256. Did you install 512 but SP only shows 256? Did you remove a module?

As far as keeping the computer because you like it, there comes a time when you hit the law of diminishing returns. I had a 2000 Honda Accord EX V6 for over 10 years. It was the nicest car that I ever owned. The transmission was failing and the cost of a new one was greater than the book value of the car. I replaced it with a 2011 Honda Accord EX-L (4 cylinder) that is OK but I don't like it as much as the 2000. When my wife turned 50, I told her that I was going to replace her with two 25s. Six weeks later, I was discharged from the hospital...

Hmmm...my husband's 50th is coming up soon; maybe I should try that line on him. I'm older than he is, so I've been the butt of his "old jokes" for a while now!!

We have a 2001 Honda Accord Special Edition (or whatever it is - very nice, with sunroof etc.) that my mother drove until her eyesight failed. We bought it from her in 2009 and it only had about 40,000 km on it at the time. I expect/hope it will keep going for a while yet!

But back to the topic at hand, Buck...how much RAM do you have really?? If you copied and pasted the info from the System Profiler into the thread, you only have 256MB, not 512MB, which qualifies as just limping along/lucky you can do anything, in my books.

[Buck]

QUOTE(Paddy @ Feb 27 2011, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Buck, if you can look at Activity Monitor and post the info you see there here, we might be able to shed some more light on what is happening. If you can give us all the memory info from the bottom of the table (Free, Wired, active etc.) and the page-ins and outs, that would be a start.

What applications are you running when you see this? As I've noted - Safari has had memory leaks for eons now - it's a well-known issue. Browsers in general tend to be problematic in this area.

Have you changed anything - new apps, what you're doing etc.?

However, nothing is going to change the fact that you really don't have enough RAM. And unless you're planning on buying an Intel Mac soon, it's worth it to spend a little to get reasonable performance.

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I did a complete reinstall of the system. I did this when things statred acting not so funny.
Of course this didn't seem to help.
How does one upload a pic here? I'm using Sceenshot Plus.