The Power Mac G5 Value Equation

[kelly]

Nice Article.

http://new.lowendmac.com/musings/03/0624.html

[kelly]

Another nice Article.

People should be excited that these new Chips etc. are here.

Power Mac G4s and G5s compared
 
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/0.../06/24/compare/

I think the G5s are beyond what anyone reasonably expected.

Can't speak to unreasonable expectations.

[Randy]

From the Anti Mac sites

http://www.haxial.com/spls-soapbox/apple-powermac-G5/
http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1296

[kelly]

Why would I want to read them.

[Bill]

Actually at the end of the first link Randy provided:

"So, please do not take my article as a criticism of Macs. Rather, I am criticising misleading advertising and fanaticism."

Not sure if his article on Apple misleading isn't misleading. <gr>

[Bill]

Randys' link as been flying all over the place.!.

Some ... 'heavy' ... discussions about the authors lack (or left out) of facts.

[Paddy]

You should see the thread at Slashdot! It would take...eons to read it all. The short article has responses from Apple VP to the benchmark debate.

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...3/06/24/2154256

However, I liked this post, from someone named Vought:

QUOTE

The "status quo" crowd that jumped all over Apple this morning for the "fake" benchmarks and "dishonest" wording will still find lots of reasons and ways to disparage the fruit company, simply because Apple isn't doing what they want - building the best, fastest, and most cutting-edge computers for $400.00.

Forget about Serial ATA - (Apple is the first top-tier manufacturer to make this interface stardard across their high-end machines.)
Forget about the new motherboard featuring HyperTransport, PCI-X, and the IBM-fabbed 1GHz northbridge chip. Oh, and 802.11G, USB 2.0, FireWire 400  and 800, and Bluetooth, too.
Forget about the imagination and creativity that goes into making a project like this go from concept to reality in eighteen months.

Why support a company like that? Bunch of dirty liars - there's no way a 2GHz chip could be faster than my Intel/AMD/whatever86!

Maybe it's not ultimately faster (although Greg's comments seem to indicate that the playing field was pretty equal). I don't buy "fast". I buy well-integrated tools that help me get work done, and in turn, bill clients. So I (still) use a Mac.

Jeez - to hear people around here, you'd think that innovation, style, performance, and the courage to move forward agressively and definitively with new technologies doesn't come at a price.

What other comapny would develop all these technologies to hardware and software maturity as part of a new hardware platform, then bring it all to market with system software already written (by the same vendor, I might add) to take advantage of new hardware features?

Those things DO come at a price. The price begins at $1999.00 for the 1.6GHz G5, or $799.00 for an eMac.

As long as there are people who just want to get work done on their computers without hiring an IT department or worrying about who is responsible for which component of the system, Apple will still be around.

I bill around eight hours a day with my Macintosh - the $400.00 price premium over PC hardware at the time I bought my G4/800 simply isn't an issue - over the lifetime of the machine, I'll probably bill at least two hundred times that amount for work made possible by its existence.

That $400.00 up-front cost means that I don't have to spend my time - my extremely expensive and finite  time - having to deal with at least two vendors just to get a system with competitive hardware, a competitive OS, and support for them both. If your time isn't valuable, by all means cheap out and build your oft-touted (and perfectly capable) PC from parts you buy at Frys. $400.00 means nothing to professionals - it's cheap support insurance.

I hope Apple sells a TON of these machines - because they're practically the only personal computer company willing to take the initiative and responsibility for supporting hardware and operating system on equal terms.

Perhaps if Apple stressed the cost of ownership point to more people, they'd have higher sales. Our small business has nearly thirty Macs. I'm the lone IT person, spending an entire hour a week on supporting a bunch of artists and their Macs. What similarly-sized Windows-based business can make that claim?

[sandbox]

Yes Apple has moved forward, to some it great leap, but are they truly the fastest as Apple claims? I seem to remember they made a similar claim some years ago about the Sawtooth, so powerful that the government wouldn’t let them export the 400 model, or something along those lines. Maybe the future will demonstrate that Apple has the fastest box, but in all the tests I’ve seen thus far it hasn’t been proven. The guy on SPl’s soapbox poses some interest stats and questions as does others who spend time measuring the speed of light.

Although I realize speed is important to some, and maybe even critical to their production efficiency, I have to wonder how much of the market really uses said speed, and how much “trust capital” is spent making questionable claims.

In the mean time, while back at the ranch.......

http://slate.msn.com/id/2084727/

[kelly]

I liked that comment too Paddy.

Thousands of replies arguing Angels Dancing on Pins.

Whatever.

It's nice to even have it debatable again.

SB. I still see Linux making bigger inroads into Commerce than the Desktop.

I'll also bet you a six pack Harley-Davidson goes under before Apple does.  

[Bill]

Saw slashdot also Paddy. Spent a fair amount time reading till I went into the speed-read mode. <gr>

Another had quite a few defending the author. I'd say around 65/35 ratio.

The way Linux has been going uphill, I wouldn't be surprised if they climb past apple sooner than what your link states SB.

What?  Harley-Davidson is still out-and-about?
Been seeing an awful lot of motorized skateboards around these parts.
Figured they were hand-me-down Harley's.

[kelly]

Back to the original Topic.

Blowout G4s or Forthcoming G5s, Which Wins the Value Comparison?

http://new.lowendmac.com/musings/03/0625.html

[Bill]

QUOTE

If you need a Power Mac that boots into OS 9, the 2003 Power Mac G4s are not an option. Neither are the forthcoming G5s. You have only one choice on the new market -- the dual 1.25 GHz G4, which was just reduced in price to $1,299.

Bet you paid a whole lot more than that Kelly.
Fact I paid just a little more than that for my last 933! /sigh\

Still like the sub topic being that the specs are on everyones mind right now. <gr>

[kelly]

They always get faster and cheaper Bill.

I don't regret that I've had mine to use for almost a year.

I did get the best price on mine I saw until many months later.

[Bill]

No regrets on my second 933 either. Was driven by a little old lady just to church.
 They tossed in tons of extras just to close the sale.

[sandbox]

I agree with with the slashdot article Kelly, I know a lot of people who make a living keeping Microsoft systems running, and the folks who write the checks, but, my point was, making statements like “fastest desktop” may be useful for promotional exposure, but their strong suit is in the points made in the article. Efficiency, dependability, and community is their strong points, speed is a Red Herring, as far as I’m concerned.

Linux has some strong points, $$ is one, community is another, and their reputation for being useful is growing.

Bumble Bee’s can’t fly, Harley’s can’t Run, and Apple is rotting on the vine I hear tell.
 
As for the Slate argument, I disagree with “there’s only room for two at the top”.
As can be seen in our other economic engine, the Automobile, the Big Three Lives.

Now on to beer, I’ll take that bet, but in case of a draw, Harley buying Apple, Apple buying Harley in the future, we may want to change the bet to a round of Boiler Makers.