Author Topic: PC Buying advice needed  (Read 2913 times)

Offline Paddy

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 13797
    • View Profile
    • https://www.paddyduncan.com
PC Buying advice needed
« on: June 28, 2003, 07:55:55 PM »
I have been charged with the task of purchasing a PC for my mother's cleaning lady. She is in Canada - has a ten-year old daughter going into 5th grade, new baby on the way, moving into their first house...in other words, not a lot of spare cash. I've had a hard time nailing down an actual spending limit, though my mother thinks that $300 or $400 would be acceptable. I flat out refuse to buy an e-machine. Other than that, I'm dithering - how cheap/old do I go? This child isn't going to be playing WarCraft, Mom wants to learn how to use a computer too (she speaks mostly Portuguese, not that this should make any difference) and no, they don't want a Mac, since the daughter is using PC's at school. (and I'm not about to start arguing with my mother on that one - t'ain't worth it! wink.gif )

Have cruised eBay, considering the possibilities, and banged myself on the head for passing up the 600MHz PIII at a garage sale for $100, complete with monitor, a couple of weeks ago.

Do I assemble something myself (I'm willing - I've basically done this with my 3 PC "rescues") or do I look for a good deal on a name-brand item? And am I more likely to find a good deal on a build-it-yourself on eBay or somewhere else?

Given that this will be used for mostly word processing, probably browsing and email, it doesn't have to be high end, but I also don't want it to be incapable of running newer software. My 200MHz Pentium 1 would fit the bill, except that a lot of newer software needs a tad more oomph.

Should it have Windows XP or 98? I've only got experience with 98, so don't know how much of a difference it really makes.

So, those of you out there with PeeCees (Bernie, KBear, Tacit etc.) - any suggestions? Ya gotta stop me heading towards those build-it-yourself high-end Athlon XP's...in the cool cases with the glowing bits...Macs REALLY do spoil one in the design department!
"If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into committees. That'll do them in." ~Author unknown •iMac 5K, 27" 3.6Ghz i9 (2019) • 16" M1 MBP(2021) • 9.7" iPad Pro • iPhone 13

Offline kelly

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 17035
    • View Profile
    • http://
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2003, 09:49:33 PM »
Have them get a name brand low end PC. smile.gif

I don't care for Compaq but this is the idea.

http://dealnews.com/articles/52017.html

Don't buy or build one for them. Let them get it from a large company.

They'll get the usual tech support. XP is fine. That's what's out there.

Integrated Graphics is fine. Don't need the best Monitor.

Don't knock yourself out for Tens of Dollars. smile.gif

My 2 cents.
kelly
Veteran SuperUser

Offline Gary S

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2003, 10:38:47 PM »
How in the world do they sell them so cheaply? ohmy.gif
Gary S

Offline bil207

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
    • View Profile
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2003, 08:23:33 AM »
Paddy,


  You might try the Dell Factory Outlet. There are usually some refurb desktops in the $300 - $400 range and they come with  a same as new warranty from Dell.
Bill

Offline SnowWitch

  • Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
    • http://
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2003, 09:57:46 AM »
This seems so "un-Mac"  tongue.gif   but in today's Circuit City flyer there is a Compaq, with flat screen monitor and printer, w/CD burner (all kids want that) and after rebates it's $469.99 ($719.99 purchase price) I think for a starter p.c. that is fairly good...IMHO.....trish

Offline Epaminondas

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1247
    • View Profile
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2003, 11:18:26 AM »
<<  I have been charged with the task of purchasing a PC for my mother's cleaning lady. >>

So you, uh, "volunteered" - did you?


Paddy,


The best Dell can currently do is $424.  And that is for a Celeron

The on-line bargain Compaq with a 2.2 Hz Pentium 4 at $399.99 is a much better deal.


For Windows XP, the base Compaq above is crippled at only 128 MB of DDR/PC2700 RAM. Your Lady needs to upgrade to at least 256 MB of total RAM to get decent performance from this machine on Windows XP without a lot of hard drive thrashing for the swap.  "More RAM is always better," but we are going economy, here.  It is usually much more cost-effective to buy RAM online aftermarket - but you might want to check out both ways.

Some good PC RAM sources:

www.crucial.com
www.kingston.com
http://www.anandtech.com/guides/priceguide.html

And of course, some cheap PC RAM sources:

www.dealram.com
www.pricegrabber.com
www.pricewatch.com

It might be best to get the computer first and see what it has on it and how bad it is swapping - even a small amount of swapping will slow the computer down significantly.  From a cost-performance aspect it is best to be able to match RAM latencies, or even get an identical 128 MB stick to what it already on the computer.


It is not clear from the very minimal description whether or not the base Compaq has a modem.  It probably does, but you might want to call and check.


This computer probably comes with a floppy drive.  If not, you can add one on after-market for around $5.00-$10.00.   A floppy may come in handy for the 10 year old for sharing things with classmates or for turning in school reports - I do not know.


The online Compaq as offered has no provision for backup.  Not good.  Definitely not good.  It will teach a newbie bad habits from the get-go that will not be broken until her first hard drive failure.

Lite-on CDRWs are very good.  "Not the best but the most."  Lite-ons are the value choice of the PC enthusiast community.

Plextors are the best CDRWs made:  they are the choice of the serious Macintosh and PC music communities.  

CDRW fanatics tend to prefer Taiyo-Yuden CDR blanks made in Japan (not Taiwan or China).  All Fuji-branded CDR blanks made in Japan are made by Taiyo-Yuden.  They can often be found on sale.

I have both the Plextor and the Lite-On 48/24/48 CDRWs. They both do the job and they both do it well.  The Lite-on was less expensive.  The Plextor is quieter - I like it better.

$43 will get your lady a 53/24/52 Lite-On CDRW

(Oops - that link did not work.  Just search through www.newegg.com if you are interested).

Installation is pretty simple for anyone who has ever switched out a hard drive.


Windows machines definitely need anti-viral software and Windows users definitely need some basic security advice: email and floppy-sharing.  Six new Windows viruses are being written each day. One out of every 80-200 emails currently comes with a Windows virus.  You need to factor in the cost of antiviral software.


If every dollar counts, your Lady can get a Microtel Walmart Windows XP Home Edition box for $308:

You might want to add a floppy drive:  generic should be fine ($5.00? online), and they are easy to install.  Or if you want the best, Samsung makes the quietest and fastest floppy drives out there at around $9.00, last time I looked.  I never did get around to putting two of them in a floppy RAID 0 configuration . . .  ;-)

You would need to add a modem:  around $9.00 for an internal hardware modem from PC Surplus Online:

And a CDRW.

Still, the online Compaq - with a 2.2 MHz Pentium 4 - is a far better overall value than the Walmart boxen.


If pennies count, a Microtel Walmart PC sans OS can be had for a mere $199.98:

Just put on the OS of your choice and go -

But, again - you would need to add a modem, a CDRW, and perhaps a floppy drive.

A better deal in regard to penny-pinching, since you get more and it cost the same as a naked PC, would probably be the $199 Microtel Walmart Lycoris Linux distribution box.

Lycoris is a dumbed-down entry level distribution of Linux, made as close to Windows as posibble without getting sued.  Similar look, similar keyboard commands to Windows, etc.  It is an appropriate distribution for the newbie: it takes a minimalist approach, with best of breed of each Linux application instead of flooding the newbie with an overload of choices (me, I like choice, but I am not a newbie).   Lycoris does have an active online help community site.  Web browsing (Mozilla), instant messaging (GAIM), Word processing (Open Office), email (Evolution), Printing etc. - all the basics are covered.  Thousands of programs are available for free.  And there will be no need to buy anti-virus software.

Again, an added modem, floppy and CDRW would be helpful.

Microtel makes a surprisingly good box - I have one.  Good quality low-cost components.  Good case.  Tech support actually answers the phone with live human beings who know what they are talking about.

The biggest problem that I see in regards to a Linux box - the killer, actually - would be in regard to a schoolchild's happiness.  Schoolchildren need to be able to conform - they do not need to be different except when they want to be different.  Schoolboys get frustrated with both Macs and with Linux boxes in not being able to share games with their peers.  Schoolgirls currently may be into America Online culture - no America Online client is available for Linux, and last I read, none is anticipated.

Unless every penny counts, a Compaq box is looking better all the time . . .


Cities do tend to have used computer outlets - you might want to check around for a monitor if nothing else.

Used CRT monitors are readily available in local city stores.

MPR II is the highest (the worst) monitor radiation rating.  Typical of bargain and of older monitors.

TCO 99 is the least (the best) monitor radiation rating.  Typical of higher quality monitors.

Children are much more sensitive to the effects of radiation than adults: this is why it may not generally be a good idea to give the kids that bargain monitor or that old monitor when you upgrade yourself to the latest and greatest new one.

If you ask, the salesman will have no idea what you are talking about, and will tell you anything that he thinks you want to believe.  You have to figure this one out on your own by visiting manufacturers' web sites.

Shadow mask CRT monitors are cheaper and are better for print.

Aperature grille CRT monitors are more expensive and are better for graphics and games.

Samsung Synchmaster shadow mask flat CRT monitors are the best around for print detail,  are TCO 99, and are less expensive than many other CRT monitors.  17" would probably be a good choice considering the budget available.  Smaller isn't going to do ya.


An LCD monitor would be nice, of course, but is likely out of your Lady's price range.


PC Surplus Online has used PC computers, components and  peripherals.  You might want to give them a gander for the little things, but as for a used system, well -  you might find yourself getting too deeply into the middle of other peoples' problems . . .


IAWK and SnowWitch.

Of the available offerings, one of the Compaqs looks like the way to go.


If buying a package in a store, cables may not be included.

Cables are a profit center for stores.

A $25.00 store-bought USB cable may cost you $4.00 online.

For cables, I like www.newegg.com

Lotsa other places are also good.


Oh - look very carefully at the "rebates" on the store-bought PCs.

These can often be a "$300 rebate" if and only if you sign up for $300 "worth" of of MSN over the next few years.  Which most of us would find to be pretty worthless.

Read that fine print.  Then go home and think about it.

The gimmick with rebates is that only around 11% are ever paid out.  That is as per the rebate industry.


Be good -

Epaminondas
« Last Edit: June 29, 2003, 11:33:37 AM by Epaminondas »

Offline SnowWitch

  • Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
    • http://
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2003, 11:48:02 AM »
Rebates can be tricky, but this Compaq that I saw in the flyer was $100 Compaq  mail in rebate, $50 HP  Mail in rebate and $100 Instant Savings (this one on the web said "web only rebate") So there wouldn't be any lock into an ISP......trish

Offline Bill

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 4615
    • View Profile
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2003, 12:19:56 PM »
I have a similar situation Paddy with an accountant.
Make a long story short.
I passed it back in her lap as to what she needs.I'm probably (most likely) going to shell out the money up front but hey. She's an accountant. <gr>

Still going to keep an eye on this thread. Ya never know. smile.gif
Two cans and a string powered by a big mouth

Offline Paddy

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 13797
    • View Profile
    • https://www.paddyduncan.com
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2003, 08:36:56 PM »
Just so you all know how the story ended...

Most of your suggestions were good - except that $400 USD for the computer and then another $70-$100 for a monitor was more than she can afford. That $500 USD turns into almost $700 CDN....

So, the search was on for something still up to the task (web browsing, word processing, kid software, nothing too demanding) and I started lurking about eBay. And today, I think I scored a nice little bargain:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=31505

I had gone up to Salem, NH and checked out the stock at MicroSeconds, a store that sells used and barebones systems - the best I could do there was about $249 for a PII 450MHz with Windows ME, 128MB RAM, 6 GB HD. They had some "barebones" IBM 300MHz desktops, but they were $89, had 4 GB HD's, 64MB RAM and couldn't take another optical drive - and no OS installed either. This was the model.

Then, there were all the other bits...so preferring not to pay the rather steep shipping on a 17" monitor from eBay, and knowing that I could always get a $70 monitor from Microseconds, I started to look on Craig's List for the Boston area. Bingo!

Son number 1 is going to give up his 17" monitor (a Sony) and replace it with this for $75! It's in perfect shape - sitting on the floor awaiting installation now. On top of that, the seller, who was moving, also had spare mice, keyboards, speakers, a printer - so for another $35, I picked up all the other bits we needed.

So, for about $225, we've put together a nice little system - not the flashiest, not the newest, but certainly capable. About all that remains is a CDRW, and if I can score a fast Mac compatible one, I may swap out the Plextor 8X4X24 I have in my Firewire case and give her the old one.

Not bad...eh? wink.gif

Of course, there's still the fun ahead of installing good ole Windoze 98SE, and getting all those devices to talk nicely to each other... dry.gif ...however I think I can manage that, having done it on the refurbs some 5 times now!
"If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into committees. That'll do them in." ~Author unknown •iMac 5K, 27" 3.6Ghz i9 (2019) • 16" M1 MBP(2021) • 9.7" iPad Pro • iPhone 13

Offline Bernie

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
    • View Profile
    • http://www.techsurvivors.net
B MacHappy! TS makes you that way!  ® < And don't forget it!

Offline Paddy

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 13797
    • View Profile
    • https://www.paddyduncan.com
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2003, 10:16:40 PM »
Um...Bernie, you did see what I wrote didn't you? wink.gif Too expensive...and I wouldn't buy someone an eMachine if you paid me. They have THE absolute worst reliability record of any manufacturer.
"If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into committees. That'll do them in." ~Author unknown •iMac 5K, 27" 3.6Ghz i9 (2019) • 16" M1 MBP(2021) • 9.7" iPad Pro • iPhone 13

Offline Bill

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 4615
    • View Profile
PC Buying advice needed
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2003, 10:25:00 PM »
Looks like you got a nice deal Paddy. smile.gif
Two cans and a string powered by a big mouth