Data movement between computers

[daryl66]

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jan 19 2012, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE

The difference I most noticed was Apple installed Lion directly onto the 2nd machine and did NOT provide you with a "downloadable" copy.

Not understanding...As we said, when Apple or anyone else, installs the OS, the last thing the installer does is to erase itself. That's why I noted the colored, bolded CAUTION, WARNING above. If you want to keep the Installer.app file you MUST save/archive/move it BEFORE you run it. Period.

ok lets try this again.   IF in fact you did NOT keep and archive a copy of your original  Lion and you want to install it on a 2nd computer when you access the app store it will advise  you that you have already purchased it. IF you then select the "download" for Lion  Apple installs it on the computer.  You are NOT provided with a 2nd Lion installer. I think  this must be  Apples way of keeping score.  If you did archive the original installer and install from that on the 2nd computer I am not sure Apple counts this as a 2nd install unless they do it upon registration. BUT you do NOT need to archive the original installer should you elect to put it on a 2nd machine,  at least that is the way it worked when I upgraded HER MBP to Lion.



Daryl

[Xairbusdriver]

Sounds like you bought Lion from the App Store, originally. It did not come pre-installed. I don't know what you got, but the Store "gave" me a "InstallESD.dmg" The Store DID NOT install anything except that 3.75GB file, possibly because Lion was already there. Opening the disk image produces a disk called "Recovery HD" which is basically the same hidden partition already on your Lion drive. Inside that partition/drive is the "Install Mac OS X Lion.app". If you look inside your Recovery HD" partition, you will see the "Install Mac OS X Lion.app"

What I recommend is that you archive that app, at least and preferably the disk image and a thumb drive of your own which you have installed Lion on and then put the app and/or the disk image on there also.

Now the downloading of that disk image was the result of my attempting to have the files necessary to create Lion on a new drive if/when the internal drive fails. I don't trust the drive to fail ONLY the partition that I normal use and somehow decide to keep the hidden partition useable. That was the whole point of having a bootable instal disk/disks. That's not how Lion is supplied, however.

I suppose it's possible that the Store recognized your AppleID and that the previously install/purchased Lion was no longer on the machine you were logged in with. AFAIK, the Store doesn't track the machine you log in with, only your AppleID and your purchase history.

Secondarily, I think the EULA says the OS is to be installed on one machine. There are no "Family Plans" at the App Store.

[daryl66]

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jan 19 2012, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like you bought Lion from the App Store, originally. It did not come pre-installed.

I suppose it's possible that the Store recognized your AppleID and that the previously install/purchased Lion was no longer on the machine you were logged in with. AFAIK, the Store doesn't track the machine you log in with, only your AppleID and your purchase history.

Secondarily, I think the EULA says the OS is to be installed on one machine. There are no "Family Plans" at the App Store.

Well you are correct I did buy it from the App Store originally, however your understanding of the EULA  does not seem to be consistent with a whole bunch of other folks.   You may want to take a peak at this forum post.  Be sure and read ALL of the posts.

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/os-x-oper...hem-one-id.html

Daryl

[Xairbusdriver]

never mind...

[chriskleeman]

Ok, to move this back on track...   I mean I was going to post this anyway, but I didn't want to get in between you two!!!

I used Migration Assistant again, and this time moved data from a SD Clone. Worked like a charm, except that Migration Assistant makes you create a different account to migrate to, and then, guess what! You cannot access the data from your old machine because it's under a different account!

So, scratching head, I decided that maybe I'd start over. Then, I bit the tech bullet, and actually called Apple Support to see if there was a work-around.

I explained the problem, and also told the tech that I had a fair amount of Apple experience. It took all of under 15 minutes to straighten it out, as opposed to whatever I was going to try to do about it this weekend  

Restart>hold down Command + r key. Release Command + r key at spinning gear.  Go to Terminal, type resetpassword>enter. When it's done, quit terminal. Go to Utilities>Disk Utility>select HDD (Macintosh)>Repair Permissions. After permissions are repaired, quit Disk Utility. Restart. When restarted, both the old admin account and the new admin account that Migration Assistant wanted created are there. I logged in under the old account that was not accessible until these steps were taken, which is from my old MBP. Voila! JOY!!!! Everything, including all my SeaMonkey Mail, online passwords, all of it are on the new machine.

I hope this is helpful information. According to the Tech at Apple, this probably happened because I didn't do it from the original Set-up Menu.

Chris  

[Paddy]

Excuse me if I'm repeating anything, but there are a few things that should be clarified/distilled.

1. Anything you download/purchase from the App store can be installed on up to 5 computers in the same household if you use the same Apple ID.

2. If you want to re-download Lion on a Mac that is already running Lion, you can do it - and a nice set of very clear instructions are found here: http://www.hightechdad.com/2011/07/21/how-...le-install-dvd/ Also read Dennis Metzcher's comments following the blog post, regarding downloading it multiple times to the same Mac.

3. If you want to avoid the problems Chris had, do NOT try to start up your shiny new Mac without the external clone/other Mac attached and ready to go when you're greeted with the initial set up on a new Mac. Do NOT go on and create a new account if you intend to use Migration Assistant. Use Migration Assistant FIRST. Then you will have one account with all your settings, documents and whatever else you chose to move from the old Mac. No permissions and access issues. There was no "probably" about why Chris saw the issues he did. REPEAT: resist the temptation to play with your new Mac until you're ready to roll with Migration Assistant. You can pat it, admire it, but don't start it up.

3. Never try to use Migration assistant over a wireless network. I've had it work over ethernet (wired) *I think*...but I usually use a cloned drive - either external or internal with multiple drives. That works flawlessly. Just did it last night for my 76-year old aunt, who went from a G4 iMac (iLamp edition) to a shiny new 2.7GHz i5 iMac. She now owns the fastest Mac in the extended family. (according to GeekBench, it handily beats my 2008 Mac Pro)

[chriskleeman]

Well, I'm certainly not going to take issue with you Paddy! But, even more light needs to be shed here... And I'm not shy about some of this being really the fault of Apple, not making clear the changes in Migration Assistant. Because of the wireless option and other connectivity options, it apparently behaves very differently, seemingly dependent on entirely what is connected and by what cable option. None of the other choices came up until the SD cloned drive was connected.

I did not start Migration Assistant until my Macs were together. Side by each. Ok, they were not connected by an ethernet cable, or a Firewire cable, but, having read the recommended Migration Assistant  instructions, Apple is remiss in offering all the options. And that is because the very first option offered is the Wireless one. And depending on where you are in the set-up screens, that's the only option that comes up. I was ready with my Firewire cable, ready to shut down the old MacBook Pro and put it in Target Disk Mode, the old way of doing it. But read on:

Paddy is entirely correct, do not use the set-up function until you have either a clone drive attached, or an ethernet cable, because unless this is the case, the option to connect via any other way than wireless will not be visible in the prompt screen. And as I said in an earlier post and Paddy said in the previous post, "Do not try to use Migration Assistant on a wireless network!!!". For the life of me, I don't know why Apple thinks this is a viable option.

So obviously, Migration Assistant behaves a bit differently than previous versions. In previous versions, it seemed much easier to "migrate" accounts. The computer that was being migrated "to" simply assigned a number 2 to the new one, and away one went. This "new" approach would seem to encourage one to create a new account, rather than hitting the bottom prompt to just "replace" the account. If you've used previous versions of MA, this can be a bit confusing, especially on deprived sleep...

To be completely clear, the account issue did not come up until both machines were connected wirelessly, and MA would not proceed until both computers had a different account. That is because, I think, (And Paddy do correct me if I'm wrong...) down at the bottom of the screen there is another option to just "replace the account" Honestly, this is what I think happened, but make sure you are awake, fully functioning with coffee or tea in hand.

So do take heed, as Paddy says. Lion is a very different animal. Probably a very capable animal, but some things look and behave very differently than in previous OS. If you haven't used Migration Assistant in a few years, Paddy offers very sage advice. And Tacit is also correct, using Migration Assistant from a cloned drive rocks. As long as one addresses the administration account issue correctly, of course!

Chris  

[Paddy]

Chris, I'm assuming here that you created an account on the new Mac with the same name as the account on the old one? That's why MA was fussy when you connected them. It was actually trying to prevent you from doing something it assumed that you might not intend - ie: overwriting the new account with the contents of the old.

I didn't really notice any differences between MA for Lion and MA for previous versions of OS X - but then, other than one or two goofs way back in the dark ages (when I started up a new Mac and created an account and ended up with two of the same name and stuff I didn't have permission to use etc. etc. just like Chris did) I've always had the drive I want to migrate from attached when I started the process. And having just looked at Apple's instructions for using MA, I HAVE migrated stuff over a wired network successfully. I remember it because of that business of having to enter the numeric passcodes. I'd never attempt it wirelessly though - it would just be too slow, and runs the risk of being interrupted if there is any interference on the network. For us, that means every time someone turns the microwave on. (I can't tell you how many times my eldest son whose MB is wireless, would holler down the stairs asking "Mum, are you using the microwave again??" He's off at university now - I don't know if the microwave in his shared house produces the same problem!)

[chriskleeman]

Hi Paddy,

MA would not let me proceed with two identical accounts. Period. There was an error message to the effect that, "You cannot have the same account on two computers" or something to that effect.

Fyi, I restarted both computers after I connected the SD clone, before I ran MA. That being said, I had attempted two attempts at wireless migration of which both failed as previously noted. I don't know if that had anything to do with the account issue, but I do believe I had created a new account, thinking erroneously that MA needed me to do that.

And yes, our microwave disrupts all wireless except the phones, which are on some ridiculously high frequency.

And no, I'm not going to run MA again so I can clarify any of what might be fuzzy that I did!

And one more item of note... I started this at 2 A.M. after being on the road all day to Boston and back, having picked up my machine in Salem NH and having dinner with my son in Quincy... Paddy, my knuckles have been rapped appropriately about not touching my shiny new toy!!! I kept telling myself, "Don't do it, don't do it..."

OY!!!

Chris

[Paddy]

Shiny new Macs are very hard to resist...

But yes - the creation of that account before running MA was what caused the problem. As I noted - this isn't something peculiar to Lion, as I managed to do the same thing at some point a number of years in the past, which is probably why I remember it more vividly than I would if I only knew this from reading the manual. Which, of course, I obviously didn't do that time!

[Xairbusdriver]

We really need to start a new thread on this...

Re-downloading Lion is different depending on how you got Lion in the first place. The instructions listed at hightechdad are fine if, and only if, you purchased Lion at the App Store. If Lion came pre-installed, it will not show as a purchase at the App Store. Because it wasn't bought there. Simple.

So, how does one create an bootable, install disk? You must use the Recovery HD. That's the hidden partition that the installer creates when it installs Lion. And you can do that by starting up with the command + R keys. Once the recovery screen comes up, just tell it to install the OS on whatever removable media you have planned to use (USB drive highly recommended). What will actually happen is the 3.7GB "InstallESD.dmg" will end up on the removable media. That has everything you need.

<OWC has posted info> about the "monkey wrench" that Apple created when replacing a hard drive with Lion previously installed.  Unfortunately, the Apple Tech Support page they link to is no longer available. Without a bootable Lion installer, their only other solution is to have an enclosure available to put the old drive in.

So, you'd better get busy making that installer disk before your only drive with Lion on it breaks. Certainly, that shouldn't happen while the machine is still under the first year of warranty...but disks have been known to disregard what "should" happen.

[Paddy]

Good point. Actually, that should also work for anyone else, even if they did buy Lion at the App store, and for those with slow connections or low bandwidth caps, it's actually the better solution.

[chriskleeman]

Yup... start up with the Option key, and the Rescue Hard Drive is right there. It is not visible under the Go menu.

Chris

[Xairbusdriver]

You can use Disk Utility to mount the Recovery HD. And you can Restore this files onto a flash drive or probably a burn image in DU, also. Note the amusing new file name suffix in there; "BaseSystem.chunklist" Maybe that's the list of files the installer "chunks" when finished? It appears to actually be a "CNKL$" file.

[Shrinkmfs]

QUOTE(Paddy @ Jan 20 2012, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shiny new Macs are very hard to resist...

But yes - the creation of that account before running MA was what caused the problem. As I noted - this isn't something peculiar to Lion, as I managed to do the same thing at some point a number of years in the past, which is probably why I remember it more vividly than I would if I only knew this from reading the manual. Which, of course, I obviously didn't do that time!

I wish I had seen Paddys' post about NEVER using Migration Assistant with Wireless a few weeks ago...I got a new MacBook recently and tried the MA and after about 15 hours of it going on and on, I had to cancel the process. This worried me terribly as I was told by an Apple tech not to cancel a migration in progress, but I did need a computer for work. Fortunately it was ok afterwards, but Paddy gave great advice-and I will always be checking to see what she says about other Mac issues not that i have found this forum. Thanks to all of you for your help.