Author Topic: Apple and tax planning  (Read 3989 times)

Offline Xairbusdriver

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 26388
  • 27" iMac (mid-17), Big Sur, Mac mini, Catalina
    • View Profile
    • Mid-South Weather
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 08:58:47 AM »
I'm not sure the word "shenanigan's" is an accurate word in tacit's otherwise good explanation of corporate tax computations. Although that word is quite apt for those that lobby for and those who vote to insert the rules into the enormously over complex tax code. Of course, many corporations help pay those lobbyists and a few even "buy" those who do the voting... Thinking.gif However, once the rules are inserted or changed, anyone, individuals included have every right to take advantage of them. No doubt the NYTs and its owners do likewise. Pots calling kettles black?

Speaking of those who write the tax rules, our illustrious State legislators have provided their constituents with a unimaginable tax CUT in the coming months and years! They actually reduced the sales tax on (items defined as) groceries by...please sit down if near any sharp cornered furniture... .25%! That's right! WOW.gif Judy and I have been talking for days on how we'll spend this extra money in the coming year; a new car, a romantic cruise, new carpet, new shoes, etc. We finally decided that we'll just go to Panera for a couple of muffins (I'll have a Cobblestone - a mini Monkey Bread) and some coffee. rolleyes.gif
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes:

Offline Paddy

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 13797
    • View Profile
    • https://www.paddyduncan.com
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 10:49:59 AM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 1 2012, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not sure the word "shenanigan's" is an accurate word in tacit's otherwise good explanation of corporate tax computations. Although that word is quite apt for those that lobby for and those who vote to insert the rules into the enormously over complex tax code. Of course, many corporations help pay those lobbyists and a few even "buy" those who do the voting... Thinking.gif However, once the rules are inserted or changed, anyone, individuals included have every right to take advantage of them. No doubt the NYTs and its owners do likewise. Pots calling kettles black?

Speaking of those who write the tax rules, our illustrious State legislators have provided their constituents with a unimaginable tax CUT in the coming months and years! They actually reduced the sales tax on (items defined as) groceries by...please sit down if near any sharp cornered furniture... .25%! That's right! WOW.gif Judy and I have been talking for days on how we'll spend this extra money in the coming year; a new car, a romantic cruise, new carpet, new shoes, etc. We finally decided that we'll just go to Panera for a couple of muffins (I'll have a Cobblestone - a mini Monkey Bread) and some coffee. rolleyes.gif


I didn't realize that there WERE any states that charge sales tax on FOOD. Yikes. But indeed, there are. And of course, the two states that charge the full rate, with no offset, are two of the highest poverty rate states in the nation. Figures. dry.gif http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1230
"If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into committees. That'll do them in." ~Author unknown •iMac 5K, 27" 3.6Ghz i9 (2019) • 16" M1 MBP(2021) • 9.7" iPad Pro • iPhone 13

Offline tacit

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1628
    • View Profile
    • http://www.xeromag.com/
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 10:27:18 PM »
I tend to call shenanigans on much of tax accounting, given that I am a company (I was a corporation 'til last year, and since then I've restructured as an LLC) and I don't get the benefits of the tax breaks the "big boys" lobby for.

The first year I was in business as a corporation, I discovered after doing my taxes that I paid more in corporate income tax (as a percentage of net income) than Microsoft did, and Microsoft was the most profitable company in the world that year.

There are all sorts of sneaky things large, publicly-traided corporations can do that little fish like me can't do. One of them is to report stock options as "expenses," even if they're not exercised. So if a company makes a million dollars in profit, they can offer their CEO a million dollars' worth of stock options and then claim that they made no profit...even if the CEO doesn't take the options.

So what that means is that I paid an effective tax rate of about 30% that year, whereas Microsoft's effective rate was something like 19% that same year. Oh, well, business as usual I guess...
A whole lot about me: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Offline kimmer

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 9086
    • View Profile
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 11:11:36 PM »
I had an interesting conversation today regarding the NYT original article. This lady had been saving up to buy an iPad and then her husband made her read that article. He's anti-Apple anyhow, and he was in a huff, and now she feels that she can't give dirty-evil-Apple her money and so she'll buy another tablet. I told her to look for the response, and also mentioned that this is what all the "big boys" do, but she is now disgusted with Apple and her hubby is adamant that he won't spend money on an Apple anything ... so well done NYT. sad.gif

Offline jchuzi

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 3094
    • View Profile
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2012, 05:49:15 AM »
U.S. Senator 'livid' about Apple's U.S. tax dealings Of course, whenever a politician gets on a high horse, I hold onto my wallet. Seriously, the point is that the tax code needs to be reformed so that there is a level playing field. Any bets on how likely that is?  whistling.gif
Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P700, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Offline Xairbusdriver

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 26388
  • 27" iMac (mid-17), Big Sur, Mac mini, Catalina
    • View Profile
    • Mid-South Weather
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2012, 09:44:09 AM »
QUOTE
the tax code needs to be reformed so that there is a level playing field. Any bets on how likely that is?
The problem with taking that bet is the extremely high probability of not living long enough to collect on it! It might be something to include in your Will. Thinking.gif However, it might require inserting language into the Will of the other party. And I'm not certain how many generations forward a Will can control... In the end, I can see this being a huge bonanza for two or more attorneys! laughhard.gif   

tacit, you get what you pay for. You obviously didn't pay enough to your 'lobbyists!' rolleyes.gif laugh.gif I think the corrolary(?) is, "You have to have money to make money." The "making" part is now called 'lobbying' you representatives. Of course, in other countries, this 'lobbying' cuts out the middleman and is just called a 'bribe.' rolleyes.gif

kimmer, I think the reaction of your friend's husband is rooted in the same mistaken 'emotional' relationship we too often have with corporations and their products. "Don't confuse me with the facts!"

OT: The concept that a corporation is a person re-enforces these emotional reactions to them. We think we should be seen as their 'friend' because we bought something they make. Why do they not treat us as a 'friend?!' We take any action we consider to be negative toward us as personally directed against us.
Example: Apple just announced the dates for the next WWDC last week. They always have more developers wanting to attend than they have room for. This year, the tickets were put up for sale at 5:30 AM Pacific time. Naturally, not many left coast developers were up at that time. From the hue and cry, you would think Apple made a conscious decision to keep these developers out of the Conference!

Apple could have made that decision. I think it more likely (and much less emotional?) that an actual person failed to check with a supervisor on when the site would open for sales. Or someone failed to notice the default time setting in whatever form was used to set up the server. Or maybe a dozen other human mistakes could be found. The point is, a corporation is not a person but the actual people who are the corporation can and often do hide be hide the layers of organization and manage to avoid taking responsibility for mistakes that humans always make.

Most developers, especially those who couldn't get tickets, think it was a mistake, even a huge one. I can understand and even agree with that idea. But reacting on how the mistake was made without knowing the facts is a waste of energy, in my opinion. Refusing to buy a product because of an emotional opinion about an organization with no emotions is simply irrational, again, in my opinion. And that's the only opinion that counts, right?! blush-anim-cl.gif scram.gif
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 10:05:54 AM by Xairbusdriver »
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes:

Offline kimmer

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 9086
    • View Profile
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 01:14:44 PM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 2 2012, 06:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
kimmer, I think the reaction of your friend's husband is rooted in the same mistaken 'emotional' relationship we too often have with corporations and their products.

Bingo! I'd use the "thumbs up" smilies, but it's too happy. HA!

QUOTE
"Don't confuse me with the facts!"

Isn't this often the response, though?

Offline krissel

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 14735
    • View Profile
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2012, 11:37:20 PM »
Ah, taxes.  Come to NJ and enjoy one of the highest taxed states in the US.  Add that to our cost of living and poor job environment and ... oh, nevermind.  At least we pay less for gasoline and it's all full-serve.  rolleyes.gif

Aside from the attention any article gets by including "Apple" in the headline, I've been wondering why the NYT has it in for our 'favorite' company. So I went looking to see who owns the major portion of the holding company and I came across the family who has owned it forever and whose son is presently publisher.

Here's the Wikipedia article on him (note the picture, hmmmmm....)

http: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ochs_Sulzberger,_Jr.

Ok, not sure why the original link wasn't working, I dragged it from the page..... checking...

For some reason our board does something to the link which ends up sending you to a page not found at Wikipedia.

So copy the address above and then remove the extra space between the : and // and you will get to the page.   Thinking.gif



« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 11:55:36 PM by krissel »


A Techsurvivors founder

Offline Xairbusdriver

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 26388
  • 27" iMac (mid-17), Big Sur, Mac mini, Catalina
    • View Profile
    • Mid-South Weather
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2012, 10:33:50 AM »
QUOTE
For some reason our board does something to the link which ends up sending you to a page not found at Wikipedia.
The board sw may not like that ASCII 'comma'? dntknw.gif

I suppose that Wiki entry is similar to others about corporate 'leaders.' Pretty boring stuff. I'd hate to be the staffer who got the 'award' to create it... as cheaply as possible so as to keep the penny 'pincher' happy. "Let's see, how much would it cost to use legal pad pages over creating a RTF?... How many paper pages would be allowed to scrapped, with or without recycling them? Thinking.gif Maybe if I used my kid's crayons... How about that roll of toilet paper... " Reminds me of the "bio" sent to the folks preparing the "Memory Book" for our 50th Reunion of our HS class. One guy just sent a copy of his latest resumé! I hope he wasn't disappointed that no body 'hired' him... laughhard.gif
THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF COUNTRIES
Those that use metric = #1 Measurement system
And the United States = The Banana system
CAUTION! Childhood vaccinations cause adults! :yes:

Offline dboh

  • Super Duper Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
    • View Profile
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2012, 05:56:43 PM »
QUOTE(kimmer @ May 2 2012, 12:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
but she is now disgusted with Apple and her hubby is adamant that he won't spend money on an Apple anything.



Remind him that GE -- about a billion times bigger than Apple -- basically pays about 3% and then suggest he either put things in perspective or start stocking up on candles.

Offline kimmer

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 9086
    • View Profile
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2012, 08:09:23 PM »
QUOTE(krissel @ May 4 2012, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For some reason our board does something to the link which ends up sending you to a page not found at Wikipedia.

Having too much time on my hands (again, I was waiting on Sneakers and my Kindle wasn't handy - LOL!) ... I think it's the period at the end of the link. I tried putting the correct link to a word/phrase and it always leaves the period off -- see below where the period shows up at the end of the phrase. Silly of wiki to have a period at the end of a url, because I would guess it causes all kinds of probs in many places.

this won't work so don't click here but see the period at the end instead of in the url.

Here's the code showing the period where it belongs:
CODE
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ochs_Sulzberger,_Jr."]this won't work so don't click here but see the period at the end instead of in the url[/url]


QUOTE(dboh @ May 5 2012, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Remind him that GE -- about a billion times bigger than Apple -- basically pays about 3% and then suggest he either put things in perspective or start stocking up on candles.

Ohhhh ... good idea. I'll see her this next week and share your wisdom. smile.gif

Offline krissel

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 14735
    • View Profile
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2012, 09:56:19 PM »
QUOTE(kimmer @ May 5 2012, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(krissel @ May 4 2012, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For some reason our board does something to the link which ends up sending you to a page not found at Wikipedia.

Having too much time on my hands (again, I was waiting on Sneakers and my Kindle wasn't handy - LOL!) ... I think it's the period at the end of the link. I tried putting the correct link to a word/phrase and it always leaves the period off -- see below where the period shows up at the end of the phrase. Silly of wiki to have a period at the end of a url, because I would guess it causes all kinds of probs in many places.

this won't work so don't click here but see the period at the end instead of in the url.

Here's the code showing the period where it belongs:
CODE
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ochs_Sulzberger,_Jr."]this won't work so don't click here but see the period at the end instead of in the url[/url]



I had tried the link with (hand added later) and without the period but I couldn't get it to work either way.  dry.gif
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 09:57:33 PM by krissel »


A Techsurvivors founder

Offline eric j

  • Super Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
    • http://
Apple and tax planning
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2012, 02:37:54 PM »
Hi,

On reflection, having started this topic, I now doubt that it truly belongs in “Tech”. Perhaps I may conclude my contribution with one or two items:-

The real source of my unease is the finance sector. FWIW here is a clip from October 2011.

http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/keiser-report-195-max/

Not all of the views proffered correspond to my own, especially with regard to silver and I expect that some will find Max Keiser’s comments unpalatable.

What are our chances of reducing the power of the finance sector?
IMHO very poor. Politics are local, finance is global.

Leaving Apple aside, here is a slide show illustrating how transfer pricing has been applied on a global basis to reduce tax liability:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/flash/page/0,,2201916,00.html

I rest my case.

eric j