Backing up not working before Upgrading OS

[Xairbusdriver]

Have you tried starting up in <Safe Mode>? One step at a time.

[Raven]

Xairbusdriver,
Yes, I did… Held Power button til it shut off.
Pushed same button to turn on. Held down SHIFT key after the chime.  No Apple logo.
Just a gray screen again!
I've also disconnected my Seagate EHD.

WAIT! Apple logo just showed up. It's taking a while to boot up.
Hmmm. What does that mean?

Will check out my EHD some more!

[Raven]

SAGA CONTINUES…
It rebooted, but icon for EHD#1 was missing.
So I restarted. Gray screen again!
Waited 4-5 minutes and a Gray Folder with "?" showed up.
That disappeared and now everything is showing on my desktop again, EXCEPT EHD#1.

I seem to getting further away with more problems than what I started with.
- Haven't started upgrading to 10.10
- Don't know yet if my new Seagate EHD works with TM.
- Can't find my first EHD that was working fine before all this!

Unplugged the EHD#1. Turned back on.
Message - "Disk is not readable by this computer"
Do I… "Initialize"

[Xairbusdriver]

TMI!

We need to understand exactly what is happening and when.

QUOTE

Held down SHIFT key after the chime. No Apple logo.
Just a gray screen again!
I've also disconnected my Seagate EHD.

"disconnected" when? Before the Safe Mode startup? During the "grey screen"?

QUOTE

WAIT! Apple logo just showed up.

After disconnecting the EHD? How long after the Startup process?

QUOTE

It's taking a while to boot up. Hmmm. What does that mean?

Did you read the info on Apples instruction page?

QUOTE

It rebooted, but icon for EHD#1 was missing.

Assuming it was now connected, again. Don't ask us to 'assume', please tell us specifically what you do between each step/action.

QUOTE

So I restarted. Gray screen again!

Safe Mode or 'normal? There is always a gray screen on start up. The duration depends on the speed of the computer, the drive and how well it's sectors are arranged.

QUOTE

Waited 4-5 minutes and a Gray Folder with "?" showed up.

That usually means there is no usable System on the drive the Mac is trying to start up with.

QUOTE

That disappeared and now everything is showing on my desktop again...

However, since it finally does complete the Start up, it's likely that the drive is starting to die or that there are many bad sectors on it, especially in the main directory. It may also mean that the booting sectors are completely out of order.

QUOTE

...EXCEPT EHD#1.

Again, I'm assuming it was (by now) reconnected? We (I) simply cannot trouble-shoot by "assuming" things. Computers just don't operate like that, only humans.
First, check System Prefs->Startup Disk and make sure your internal, builtin drive is selected. If it is not, it will 1) waste a lot of time searching for the non-connected disk, 2) Waste time looking for a bootable System on any external disk that may be connected. Eventually, it will give up and look at the internal dick and the Startup process will finally begin.

I suggest you discontinue trying to use the external drives until you can get the internal drive working properly and consistently. If you have a stop watch, use it to keep track of what is happening when. Otherwise, an analog clock/watch can help. If nothing else, an egg timer (sand or mechanical) might help. There's one other timing method, but Sun dials are so rare now...

One (detailed) step at a time...

[jchuzi]

QUOTE(Raven @ May 13 2015, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SAGA CONTINUES…
It rebooted, but icon for EHD#1 was missing.
So I restarted. Gray screen again!
Waited 4-5 minutes and a Gray Folder with "?" showed up.
That disappeared and now everything is showing on my desktop again, EXCEPT EHD#1.

I seem to getting further away with more problems than what I started with.
- Haven't started upgrading to 10.10
- Don't know yet if my new Seagate EHD works with TM.
- Can't find my first EHD that was working fine before all this!

Unplugged the EHD#1. Turned back on.
Message - "Disk is not readable by this computer"
Do I… "Initialize"

"Initialize" means the same as erasing and re-formatting. If you do that, you'll lose everything that's on the disk, assuming that the data are still intact. I would guess that the "?" at startup means that you set System Preferences > Startup Disk to one of the externals. The computer looks for it but can't start from it. After a suitable wait, it boots from the first bootable disk it finds, namely the internal. If I'm correct, reset your startup disk to the internal.

The long time to start in Safe Mode is normal. The computer does a number of diagnostics, including verifying the disk the same way that Disk Utility does. I'm fairly certain that the external drive is dead.

[Raven]

Xairbusdriver,
I disconnected Seagate EHD#2 before Safe Mode start up.

Apple logo showed up 4-5 minutes after Safe Mode startup.

If the "drive is starting to die" (scary thought!), all the more reason to get my EHDs working, n'est pas?

Start up disk is my main hard drive. Not any of the 2 external drives. It seems to be working fine at the moment.

EHD#1 is/was connected all the time. The enclosure's blue light is on. But no icon on desktop. I think(?) this started after the first Safe Mode startup. This EHD has my Super Duper cloning of 10.6.8 on it (I erroneously stated before it was Carbon Copy Cloner).

I am not reconnecting the Seagate EHD#2 until I solve the EHD#1 problem. Suggestions?
 

[jchuzi]

Do you have TechTool Pro, Drive Genius, or Checkmate? If you do, run a surface scan on the internal drive (may take several hours). If the drive passes, it's probably OK, although there might be an unrelated mechanical problem. At least you would know that you don't have bad sectors. You can check SMART on the internal drive with Disk Utility. Just select the drive in the DU window and look at the bottom of the window.

If the internal drive is OK, I suggest cutting your losses and replacing both externals, and not with Seagate! Other World Computing is a good company to deal with. I would buy separate enclosures and hard drives rather than an all-in-one. First of all, that tends to be cheaper but, more importantly, you can select the hard drive that you want. And, the hard drive manufacturer may well issue a longer warranty than the all-in-one. It is more likely that the hard drive will fail than the enclosure.

I see, from MacTracker, that your computer should have a Firewire 800 port. If you buy an enclosure with FW 800 capability, you'll get reasonable transfer speeds. I believe that it will be faster than USB 2. If you can get enclosures that have USB 3 in addition, you'll be better able to take advantage of USB 3 speeds if you should ever get a new computer.

When I had my Mac Pro, I had the luxury of installing drives internally (and I had four of them). My iMac 5K Retina does not give me that option. So, I bought an enclosure from OWC that has USB 3 and Thunderbolt connections. I use the Thunderbolt because it's faster. (Thunderbolt is not an option with your present computer but USB 3 is backwards compatible with USB 2).

OWC didn't have the specific hard drives that I wanted so I went to Amazon and bought two 2 TB Hitachi Deskstars. My experience with this brand has been flawless. Yes, I could have gotten drives with faster read/write speeds but I decided that reliability trumped speed. Installing the drives in the enclosure was a breeze. The instructions were very clear. Once installed, all I had to do was connect the enclosure to a Thunderbolt port and plug it in.

To sum up, PUNT. Ditch Seagate and get something better.

To save you some time, here are some OWC choices for enclosures. I assume that you want 3.5", 7200 RPM drives. These should handle them. If you are considering one of them but you're not sure, phone OWC. Their sales reps are very knowledgeable.

[Xairbusdriver]

All you need to "install" a drive in an enclosure is a small bit, probably Philips, screwdriver. Period. It's misleading to call this "installing" If you can unlock a door with a key, you can "install" a drive in an enclosure.

[Raven]

UPDATE:
Was able to get EHD #1 working again. All good there.

Seagate EHD #2... Unplugged it and back on.
Shut off Energy Saver.
Started Time Machine backup. After half hour(ish), it gave same message as before - "error occurred while copying files to back up disk".

Used Disk Utility to Verify Disk#2.
Message for all 3 partitions - "Needs repair"
Tried to Repair Disk. "Stopped repairing. Could not unmount"
(Same crappy messages as before)
Tried to eject.
Only way to eject is to Shut off and disconnect USB cable.

I'm calling Best Buy tomorrow to return drive. Will get another one.

[Paddy]

Please note, everyone, that Raven lives in CANADA. So while we can order stuff from OWC, unless it's something only they carry, it's better to get it from a Canadian source. And if it's something only they carry, then DocMac over at EhMac carries some of their stuff and would be a good source, avoiding customs, high shipping, fun with UPS brokerage etc. etc.

Raven, check the drives at Newegg.ca and Amazon.ca - usually better choices price-wise etc. than Best Buy anyway. I'm hoping that BestBuy will give you your money back and not insist that you go through Seagate, which will only get you another Seagate drive (and a refurb, at that). Fingers crossed.

As for drive choices - here's one:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Prod%5burl="http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822149396" target="_blank">TOSHIBA PH3300U-1I72 3TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Retail Kit is one option.

Actually - there aren't a lot of well reviewed 3TB drives out there. I generally avoid them - 2TB seems to offer more choices, though I'm not seeing a lot to choose from there either.

External enclosures from Vantec, Macally and of course, OWC are all worth considering. Get something with USB 3.0 at least: even if you don't have USB 3.0 now, you may well in the future. FW800 is fast, but it's going to cost you quite a bit more.

[Raven]

CLOSING DOWN THIS RIDICULOUS CHAPTER, because...

I called Best Buy to ask to return my new Seagate external drive that isn't working.
I can only return it in person at the same store where I purchased it some 500 miles away. They will not even allow me to mail it back with the original receipt. So, I was referred to Seagate.com

Their website tells you to download software to test the unit. That is only available for DOS and Windows.
When I enter the Return Merchandise page, the action stalls when it "validates my address" for 15 minutes or so... twice!
The USA website has no Country (Canada) Return Process (PDF).
If you read their Visual Inspection Criteria, they will not accept a unit if there is any mark, scratch or maybe even a fingerprint on the returned device. ;-)
The Backup Plus 3 Tb model is not even listed on their website. Built 11/2013.

(Wondering - Seagate has to sell tens of 1000s of these units worldwide. How do they do it if it has such a high failure rate?)

I've contacted Seagate. Apparently they may send me another unit! :-(
I'll close this off until I get a new drive and try my OS upgrade again.
My Super Duper cloning EHD is still working.

Don't know how a casual Mac user does this.
MUCH THANKS to all you good people here at TS!! :-)

[Paddy]

QUOTE(Raven @ May 14 2015, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CLOSING DOWN THIS RIDICULOUS CHAPTER, because...

I called Best Buy to ask to return my new Seagate external drive that isn't working.
I can only return it in person at the same store where I purchased it some 500 miles away. They will not even allow me to mail it back with the original receipt. So, I was referred to Seagate.com

Their website tells you to download software to test the unit. That is only available for DOS and Windows.
When I enter the Return Merchandise page, the action stalls when it "validates my address" for 15 minutes or so... twice!
The USA website has no Country (Canada) Return Process (PDF).
If you read their Visual Inspection Criteria, they will not accept a unit if there is any mark, scratch or maybe even a fingerprint on the returned device. ;-)
The Backup Plus 3 Tb model is not even listed on their website. Built 11/2013.

(Wondering - Seagate has to sell tens of 1000s of these units worldwide. How do they do it if it has such a high failure rate?)

I've contacted Seagate. Apparently they may send me another unit! :-(
I'll close this off until I get a new drive and try my OS upgrade again.
My Super Duper cloning EHD is still working.

Don't know how a casual Mac user does this.
MUCH THANKS to all you good people here at TS!! :-)

Did you go to this page, Raven? https://returns.seagate.com/returns/guest/x...tCustHome.xhtml

Since I have nothing to return, I can't test it, but you do choose your country.

I wouldn't worry about the visual inspection criteria - it's obvious physical damage they're looking for. If you click on the "list of conditions that may void your warranty" link on the page I link to above, they have lots of pictures of stuff they won't accept (for pretty obvious reasons!)

As for the failure rates, those are never as high as the reviews would lead you to believe - as a general rule, people who are happy with their purchases seem to be less likely to bother reviewing them at all - they're too busy getting on with things!

[Raven]

I'm now shopping around for another EHD.
Believe it or not, my new Seagate unit that just failed me and has been returned for a replacement is rated highly by CNET...
http://www.cnet.com/topics/storage/best-ha...storage-drives/

 

[jchuzi]

Ah, CNET. If you trust CNET, you'll trust the NSA in the good old USA.