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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« on: November 17, 2015, 06:55:40 AM »
I use the latest version of SuperDuper to make a clone. The clone is located in a Mercury enclosure on a Hitachi DeskStar 2 TB drive. After upgrading from Yosemite to El Capitan, the clone will not boot (although this may be coincidental). I contacted Dave Nanian at Shirt Pocket (the developer of SuperDuper) and he has not seen this issue with El Capitan. He had me try the following (all unsuccessful):

1. Erase the clone and re-clone from scratch.
2. Run Smart Update from SuperDuper.

The clone did boot, once, after running Repair Disk via Disk Utility but I think that that was coincidence. Disk Warrior reports minor issues (incorrect root correction date and repair of a custom flag for ScamZapper) but I have not run DW on the clone after re-doing the clone.

I have the enclosure connected via Thunderbolt. I tried reconnecting via USB 3 but that was unsuccessful.

At this point, I think that the problem may lie with either the enclosure or the hard drive. I feel that the hard drive is unlikely as the source of the issue because it is checked daily by Check Mate, with no problems found (file structure test, SMART, surface scan). Is there any way to test the enclosure?

Any thoughts?

ADDENDUM: When attempting to boot from the clone, the progress bar goes about half way, stops, and the computer spontaneously shuts down.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 09:47:09 AM by Xairbusdriver »
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Jon

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Offline Xairbusdriver

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clone will not boot
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 09:59:31 AM »
OWC (I think that's where the "Mercury" enclosure came from) may have some testing code for the enclosure. They may want you to return it for testing. rolleyes.gif There are several different versions of the interface hardware (basically SATA to whatever chip sets) and it might even be updatable.

BTW, I have basically no experience with Thunderbolt, but I didn't notice any specific Thunderbolt compatibility with Mercury (single drive) enclosures. I can only assume that TB also includes 'on-the-fly' compatibility with FireWire input? dntknw.gif I also assume that this hardware/enclosure has already been in use before this problem appeared. wallbash.gif
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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 06:32:11 PM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Nov 17 2015, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
OWC (I think that's where the "Mercury" enclosure came from) may have some testing code for the enclosure. They may want you to return it for testing. rolleyes.gif There are several different versions of the interface hardware (basically SATA to whatever chip sets) and it might even be updatable.

BTW, I have basically no experience with Thunderbolt, but I didn't notice any specific Thunderbolt compatibility with Mercury (single drive) enclosures. I can only assume that TB also includes 'on-the-fly' compatibility with FireWire input? dntknw.gif I also assume that this hardware/enclosure has already been in use before this problem appeared. wallbash.gif
This OWC Mercury enclosure has both USB and TB ports, so the choice is up to the user. It was working fine before I upgraded to 10.11.1 from 10.10.5. In another forum, someone else reported issues making a bootable clone with 10.11.1. I may wait until 10.11.2 is released before making a judgment.
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Jon

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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 05:28:55 AM »
Dave Nanian made the following suggestion: "Power off the Mac. Disconnect the external completely. (No other peripherals save for mouse and keyboard - no hubs, etc.) Hold down Option and get to the boot screen. Then, attach the drive directly to your Mac (what drive is this, by the way?) and try to start up from it." It didn't work.

For the record, I'm using an   OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual with two 2 TB Hitachi DeskStar drives, configured independently (one for the clone, the other for Time Machine). I may contact OWC to describe the problem. As far as I can tell, the problem lies with an incompatibility between the enclosure and El Capitan, since everything was fine in Yosemite.
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Jon

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Offline sandbox

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clone will not boot
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2015, 03:37:48 PM »
Jon,

I acquired this backup software when I upgrade to Mavericks +/- 2years now... Works flawlessly.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/25/get-bac...ility-for-macs/

If you're feeling a little adventurous give it shot.  thumbup.gif

edit: and oh...works the same in El Cap too.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 03:41:15 PM by sandbox »
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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2015, 07:06:00 PM »
QUOTE(sandbox @ Nov 20 2015, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Jon,

I acquired this backup software when I upgrade to Mavericks +/- 2years now... Works flawlessly.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/25/get-bac...ility-for-macs/

If you're feeling a little adventurous give it shot.  thumbup.gif

edit: and oh...works the same in El Cap too.
Thanks for the tip. Before I do that, I'll have to rule out another possibility. Dave Nanian suggested that I put the cloned drive into a different enclosure and see what happens. I don't have an extra enclosure at the moment, but I will get one as soon as I have the time and try this. I strongly suspect that the enclosure is the culprit.
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Jon

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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 07:11:21 PM »
QUOTE(jchuzi @ Nov 20 2015, 08:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(sandbox @ Nov 20 2015, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Jon,

I acquired this backup software when I upgrade to Mavericks +/- 2years now... Works flawlessly.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/25/get-bac...ility-for-macs/

If you're feeling a little adventurous give it shot.  thumbup.gif

edit: and oh...works the same in El Cap too.
Thanks for the tip. Before I do that, I'll have to rule out another possibility. Dave Nanian suggested that I put the cloned drive into a different enclosure and see what happens. I don't have an extra enclosure at the moment, but I will get one as soon as I have the time and try this. I strongly suspect that the enclosure is the culprit.

I tried another enclosure and a different hard drive. Cloning with SuperDuper was successful but the clone still would not boot. I should be receiving a SSD in a few days and I'll try that, but I can't imagine why it should make a difference.

One more thing to try, and I'll post results when I get around to it, is to use a different cloning app. I'll probably try Carbon Copy Cloner and Sandbox's suggestion.

Comments, anyone?
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Jon

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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2015, 06:28:29 PM »
Success! I installed a SSD into a USB 3 dock and cloned with Carbon Copy Cloner. The clone booted without incident. Looks like I'll be buying CCC. I'll tell Dave Nanian about this but I don't know what he'll make of it.
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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clone will not boot
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2015, 07:36:30 PM »
I suppose it would only be fair to try a clone with SD and the SSD...

I use both apps, on two different partitions (TM uses a separate drive). When SD won't clone, I usually have to do some maintenance on that drive. When CCC won't clone, I used to remove the file that it indicated was a problem. However, the last few times, I've simply run CCC again with success. dntknw.gif They both have their differences in the GUI, I'm not sure there is any difference in their underlying methods. The biggest difference I've seen is that if SD isn't successful, it can prevent a scheduled Shutdown. CCC consistently quits, even when it finds an error. wink.gif It's difficult to remember exact behaviors since they fail so infrequently, one drive is getting long in the tooth...
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Offline Paddy

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clone will not boot
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 11:05:14 PM »
I've had the same situation - a drive that simply wouldn't clone properly with SuperDuper and worked flawlessly with Carbon Copy Cloner. Emailed Dave Nanian for support - he finally said he thought there was an issue with the drive. Well...it's still working and that was about a year and a half ago, so it was not an issue with the drive. Plus I have another one just like it (exactly) and it clones fine. In fact, if I recall, I did eventually get the first one to clone with SD too. I don't think I have any CCC active clones at the moment.

I like SD and Dave's responsiveness, though CCC has more flexibility in WHAT you can clone, so it's handy when you want to make a more finely tuned clone.
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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2015, 03:49:36 AM »
Dave Nanian thinks that the SSD would have booted if I had used SD. I can't imagine why a SSD would boot in the USB 3 dock but a conventional HDD would not. Still, I'm going to experiment.

1. The trouble started after I upgraded from Yosemite to El Cap. I use a conventional HDD in a Thunderbolt - USB 3 enclosure. I will (when I have some time) erase that clone and re-clone with CCC.

2. I will also erase the SSD clone (made with CCC) and re-clone with SD.

When I have results, I'll post back.

BTW, I was impressed with CCC. I haven't used it for many years and I was particularly pleased that it creates a recovery partition, which SD does not. I haven't explored all its features but it looks good so far.
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Jon

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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2015, 05:39:32 AM »
QUOTE(jchuzi @ Dec 4 2015, 04:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. The trouble started after I upgraded from Yosemite to El Cap. I use a conventional HDD in a Thunderbolt - USB 3 enclosure. I will (when I have some time) erase that clone and re-clone with CCC.
I just did this and the clone booted without incident. I ran some tasks with it and all seems well. However, CCC reported that it had lost connection with the clone when it offered to make a recovery partition. This didn't happen with the SSD clone made with CCC.


QUOTE(jchuzi @ Dec 4 2015, 04:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2. I will also erase the SSD clone (made with CCC) and re-clone with SD.
I may or may not try this. Everything seems to be working so, if it isn't broken, I won't fix it.

EDIT: I sent a report to Mike Bombich about the recovery partition issue, so we'll see what he says.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 07:56:28 AM by jchuzi »
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Jon

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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2015, 10:49:24 AM »
Update: Bombich Software sent instructions about resolving the recovery partition issue and linked me to   Cloning Apple's Recovery HD partition. Problem solved!

I must say that I am very impressed with CCC, its interface, and its tech support.
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Jon

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Offline sandbox

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clone will not boot
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2015, 06:41:03 PM »
Jon, I tested a number of backups programs and for some reason, that I can't remember, CCC seemed clumsy. Oh, and now I remember, I couldn't find the security encryption tool for the run. You had to wait until the clone was finished, boot from the clone and encrypt with FileVault.
We fill drives for storage pretty regularly around here, and the AES encrypt option in Get Backup fit the bill.

Anyhow...I'm glad you found a solution, though it would have been interesting to read your assessment.
Take care.
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Offline jchuzi

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clone will not boot
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2015, 03:51:43 AM »
Encryption is not an issue for me, so I'm quite happy with CCC. Dave Nanian said,

"I understand. There's part art and part science here, as you might expect, given the state of a live drive and copying to a destination that's being updated. But, really: SuperDuper works. WHy you had a startup problem here...again, I don't know, because all I know is that it was trying to boot and then the launchd process (which loads some Apple stuff) failed. But we don't know why."

That makes two of us.
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Jon

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