Computer still can't get things right

[Xairbusdriver]

Uber is suspending "Self-Driving car testing after hitting a pedestrian in AZ. The vehicle even had a human behind the wheel who was supposed to take over if a problem occurred. Of course, pedestrians are often hit when they pop up in front of a car un-expectantly. Apparently, the computer didn't react quickly enough, either. The pedestrian died at hospital. You may recall that a "driver" was killed while 'driving' a Tesla in FL back in 2016.

[kimmer]

I'm not at all excited about these "self-driving" cars--or any other self-driving vehicle. This past December there was an Amtrak wreck in Portland, OR, and preliminary evidence points to a problem with the  crash-avoidance technology -- which may, or may not, have been engaged. Several people were killed, and many others injured. Human beings are important, like it or not.

[Xairbusdriver]

Unfortunately, humans are not good as "backups" to much of anything. That train crash occurred because the "human monitor" (engineer/driver) lost mental track of where he was on the line. He also missed seeing the physical signs posting the speed limit for that location. Even a simple GPS display would have enabled him to see where he was and what curves were ahead. Of course, that would assume he was actually monitoring that screen occasionally. The system not yet implemented is way past the date imposed by the FRA/NTSB. Its complete installation and use is awaiting the usual level of tragic loss of life that finally forces companies to act.

Details on Positive Train Control

The death of the pedestrian may have happened regardless of what/who was driving the vehicle. Regardless of the ads we see, it is physically impossible to stop a mass like a car (much less an 18-wheeler) in an instant. It takes time and therefore distance. If the object is within that distance, it will be hit. From what I've read/heard, the pedestrian entered the roadway mid-block and possibly from between other vehicles/obstacles making it difficult, if not impossible to have been seen before the time required in the equation above. Unfortunately, "fault" does not make the loss of life any less painful or tragic.

I can only assume that the law will continue to hold the owner/driver of these kinds of vehicles responsible of the safe operation of them. My question is how can we expect a "driver" to be any more alert while being a passive passenger than when they are actively controlling the car? We already see folks doing all sorts of things while "driving". And we can't blame all that on cell phones, people have been putting on make-up, shaving, reading, talking to passengers, etc. almost since passenger vehicles were invented. Of course, a horse would usually avoid running/walking into a building/tree or at least slowing down...

Perhaps I should have put this on the Community side. My comments are certainly straying from the technical side of things...

[Highmac]

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 20 2018, 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps I should have put this on the Community side. My comments are certainly straying from the technical side of things...

I reckon it's fair enough, since it's a topic where it's difficult to separate the human/tech aspects

London's DLR (Docklands Light Railway) addition to the capital's rail transport network has been operating driverless for more than 25 years. Searching for "DLR crash" finds only one incident. Ironically, it was during a test run before the line opened when a human was in control. The DLR is quite good fun to use, since there is no driver's cab, just a locked (of course..!) control panel at the front seat. This means that if they are lucky, a child can sit there and pretend they are driving. I would add that there is no upper age limit on childhood

Continuing the 'humans and tech' theme, we watched the film "Sully" last night. I'd be interested to hear from you, Jim, whether you've seen the film and, if so, how accurate the portrayal felt to you. Generally every profession - whether it's lawyers, cops, judges taxi-drivers or journalists - complains about how Hollywood treats their particular job. I accept you were not there, so you can't say how accurate it really was, as opposed to how it felt to you.

The inquiry was told simulations by Airbus showed the plane could have made it to La Guardia or another whose name I can't recall. They were shown the simulations and Sully picked up that they made no allowance for reaction time on the part of the crew. "We could have done it if we'd been told in advance what time it would all happen..." The simulations were then rerun to allow for 35 seconds "reaction time" which proved the humans (it was rightly emphasised that it was a combined crew effort) had got it right.

We saw archive news clips alongside the end credits and Hanks seemed to have got the 'character' of the real-life pilot.

Found this on a UK aviation website - interview with Clint Eastwood about the making of the film and definitions of "heroism".

[Xairbusdriver]

Yes, I saw the movie, but I will admit I did so reluctantly. Rarely does the entertainment industry "report" events as they actually happened. But that's why we have "news reporters". Lately, it seems many prefer entertainment over fact.

I think the best line in the linked interview is from Captain Richard de Crespigny;"Sully shows us a better way to investigate safety. Safety officials generally only research events where things go wrong. The answers uncover ignorance, inadequate training or lack of experience. Rarely do the positive influences emerge." Of course, most events that get investigated don't have 'successful' outcomes, so the findings are usually pointers to out to prevent a re-occurance. That doesn't leave a lot of room for 'positive influences'.

A couple of key factors enhanced Capt. Sulley's chances.

1. He was an accomplished sailplane pilot, that gave him great experience in situational awareness, especially in understanding how fast he was losing altitude. That directly affected how far the aircraft could go.
2. He was not working alone. He had a great First Officer.

"Crew Resource Management" replaced the "John Wayne" technique developed by many single-pilot military flyers. That's one of the most important "positive influences" from decades of investigations.  

[Xairbusdriver]

Another, tastier use of computers... still not ready for your dinner table, unfortunately.

Robots Are Trying To Pick Strawberries

They couldn't be any worse than the last two packages we bought. First one had a big, fat, fungus-covered berry conveniently buried/hidden by the others. I was assigned to return the package for a refund. "And ask for a free replacement!"

After a congenial discussion with "Customer Service" and supposedly thorough search, I returned with the free replacement. Unfortunately, the 'new' package still had a fungus-growing berry. At least it was not at the dripping stage...

[kimmer]

Dashcam footage of the Uber crash. Looks like the fault lies with both the pedestrian and the human back-up driver.
http://abc13.com/dashcam-shows-deadly-cras...ehicle/3234502/

Highmac, I haven't seen "Sully" as I read too many reviews that said it failed to follow the book and real events; however, I did read the book when it came out and it was great. I recommend you read the book, and forget what you saw in the film.

[Xairbusdriver]

Looks like the “driver” was more concerned about the computer read out(?) than pedestrians, trees, vehicles, etc. I hope that job description strongly identifies what the safety observer was supposed to be doing! I’m also betting there is a bit of a delay in the video display. As we say in aviation, “Who’s flying the plane?!” That’s always the first question no matter wether “George” is there or not...

[Highmac]

I went back to search more on Captain de Crespigny, and found this article about how his actions helped minimise the damage to business and protect the public and customer perception of Qantas - What Air Crash Investigations Didn't Tell You...

QUOTE

Richard is more than a professional pilot, he is committed to giving his passengers the best possible experience and being a positive representative of the Qantas, Airbus and Rolls-Royce brands.

Shortly after landing...

QUOTE

No-one had been injured but the Twitter-sphere and Internet were abuzz. The Qantas CEO, Alan Joyce, was travelling in a car with his head of Corporate Communications when they received a phone call asking why Qantas’ share price was falling dramatically. For them this was the first sign of a problem and highlights the instant speed of social media and its power to impact a brand in real-time.

It's a fascinating read (IMHO!) and would that more businesses took the "customer-centric" view seriously.

Sorry folks - is this getting TOO far off topic?  

[Xairbusdriver]

QUOTE

Sorry folks - is this getting TOO far off topic?

Not in my humble opinion! While "Tech" is fairly new consumer area, all outstanding businesses need to keep in mind the reason they can stay in business. If they don't treat their "masters" with respect and honesty, they will cease to exist. I have always been proud to have worked at the "fly-by-nyt" package delivery company during my working career. They not only treated customers but their employees better than 95+% of industry. They never questioned me about any decision I made, even as a junior crew member. Questions? Yes, but not to punish, only to learn and improve operations/safety.

[kimmer]

This is n interesting report:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/self-dri...-crash-arizona/

[Xairbusdriver]

"Second, the video confirms the prototype’s operator took her eyes off the road for several seconds at a time in the moments leading up to the crash." Is that a "political correctness" her or does he author think the driver was a woman?

"Our Lidar can see perfectly well in the dark, as well as it sees in daylight, producing millions of points of information. However, it is up to the rest of the system to interpret and use the data to make decisions. We do not know how the Uber system of decision-making works" It didn't take long before the blame shifting started...

Amazing how many times people are quoted as being "baffled" by this event. Really? I would simply suggest that some managers and executives be used as "obstacles" in further tests. Perhaps that would instill some well needed oversight in the programs.