HELP!!! Update failed...

[Dreambird]

Hey guys,

I was trying to install a security update for OS 10.11.6... El Capitan which is what I run on my MacBook Pro circa 2012. It failed near the end of the update with Kernal Panic and now I can get the machine to start up at all. It just gets as far as one KP after another and thats it
I think I may have trouble with my external OWC FireWire adapter to thunderbolt.
It is freezing, goodie that's where my backups are. What do I do please!!!

[Dreambird]

Through disk warrior I,ve managed to run first aid on all disks including the external. Now it is allowing dw to do its thing... It said it was poorly optimized and yes I did have the thing plugged in while doing the failed update. I guess next trick if this doesn't work is trying to get a back up off it??? Really??!? I don't have time for this....
Any other ideas before I rip my hair out?

Ok. How about this? I can download the sec. Update with my iPad but how do I try rerunning it on the MacBook?

Dw finally finished with the external, just a bunch of custom icon flags! Big deal.
There's got to be a way to rerun that stupid update on my main drive???

[Dreambird]

Restoring from time machine... Sorry no time to wait around I need this thing to run tonight. Took a backup from the last one last night... Just hope the thing is happy after nearly 3 more hours.

Does any one suggest I try the sec. Update again and if so... How do I avoid the same issue?

[Dreambird]

A time machine restore seems to have worked however it BLEW OUT all my custom icons. As for trying that security update again... I'd say NO!

So it's just a bunch of icons? Yeah ok but I worked on them for a long time and for years I've gotten used to navigating just by the icon... All gone folders apps everything! Any custom icon... Thanks Apple... I guess it's their way or the highway. To say I'm pissed is an understatement!

[Dreambird]

Well... after many hours, digging around the net, running about 5 terminal commands, deleting various things, running OnyX for my usual routine, plus repairing permissions.... and I don't remember what else... but I'm glad I have Disk Warrior for sure... I've managed to get back I think the majority of my icons. I'm not sure how that happened either but I simply picked an png format icon I have to at least put a pleasing if not the same one on a fold that is special... I found that pasting the new icon onto it with Get Info it to my stunned eyes reverted to the old one I liked so much. Same routine has worked on any other missing icons I've tried so far. It has to be trying to paste a new one, if the generic icon is deleted then the custom icon is lost. Why? No idea.
I'm going to go through the machine and restore the icons I want most... not all of them and then I suppose I'll go through and delete quite a few old apps as they aren't really any good any more anyway. And THEN I'll decide if I should back up the icons I want and run Time Machine again just to be sure I didn't mess anything up with Terminal. It doesn't appear so as yet.

Then we'll see if I dare try that update again. Appears on the net I'm not the only one having this issue with it. I fear there may be just too many updates loaded on top of OS after OS. A complete reformat is not something I want to contemplate however, some think there are too many bits and pieces of old stuff hanging around... 

[Xairbusdriver]

I think your custom icons are the least of your problems. In my humble opinion, they are nothing but "eye candy". You need to find the root cause of the near disaster and fix that. The usual suspect, of course, is the 6+ year old drive in the MBP.

On the other hand, having a problem during a major update is not that unusual. The normal fix is the re-download the update and repeat the install. Of course, the very first step is to make a known, working clone before doing any OS update. "Known, working" clone is not the same as just a clone you hope is correct.

[Dreambird]

I'm afraid if I go by what I've seen in several places on the net  it seems more likely to be for one thing an older OS, however I saw people with 10.12.x with the problem but with the way updates keep coming out... that is getting to be an old OS... At 10.11.6 I'm a couple behind. Also apparently if one has unsigned software, which means "you didn't get it from the App Store" it could throw a monkey wrench in things... I don't know, but no, I didn't get everything I have from the App store, which is why I intend to go through things and get a bit  "trash happy" with some old apps I can live without. I'll still have some apps I didn't get from the App Store though.
"If" one can believe Disk Utility which says my internal HD is verified and all it's not the internal flash drive. The external one it appears to be OK too but it is Firewire attached via an adapter to a thunderbolt port. I'm not sure what to do with that one... I'd like something newer however I have no idea what to get so it's still a question mark.
I'm sorry I didn't post any specific links but I looked at several... I just googled my problem and that was on the iPad and found that it's a common enough problem so I'm not the only one. I'm not saying it happens to millions and millions of people but common enough to turn up the problem easily enough.

Does anyone know if running the El Capitan 10.11.6 Combo Updater might be a good thing to do? I've updated the last couple through the App Store. I saw that suggested too, anyway my hope would be that it might put a "fresh complexion" on some things, maybe?

Sorry also about my very poor spelling and such in previous posts but they were from the iPad and typing there isn't my best skill, especially if in a hurry.

Anyway, I'll look in later... I saw a post a bit before mine involving trouble with the newest Safari on 10.11.6 which I'm curious about to see more. That was the other update presented to me, I hid the iTunes update some time ago and can't find where to show that one again now but I know it's available to download on the net. I probably need to figure that one out soon too.

I welcome any suggestions except buying a new machine because I just can't afford it right now. A new external of some sort to use for Time Machine could be done sooner. Updating to a newer OS will cause me to lose several "non 64 bit" apps I use which is an issue until I find newer replacements I like... I hope to help that problem by clearing out things I can live w/o but there's a few...

At least I got things running last night well enough to finish some things I needed to.

[jchuzi]

Running the Combo 10.11.6 Updater can't hurt and may help. This is an old remedy that often fixes weird problems. Don't rely on Disk Utility too much; it's OK but not as powerful as one would like. I trust Disk Warrior much more.

All currently available OS's support 32-bit apps, including High Sierra (10.13). I'm happily running a bunch of them in 10.13.5. Preliminary results from a 10.14 (Mojave) beta tester in this FTM thread indicate that, so far at least, 32-bit apps may run in Mojave. At least, that's the current thought, which may change, of course.

[Dreambird]

Oh thank, Jon! I really needed someone's opinion on the Combo Updater which is available from Apple here:
https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1885?locale=en_US
There's some reading there too.... 
I'd also always believed in the Combo Updater trick to  be useful, just wasn't so sure with the new OS's.

While I understand the need to keep updating software I just wish Apple would slow down just a little bit... I find it hard to keep up and simply can't afford a new machine often, my last one hung around for 9 years, I know 6 yrs. is getting a little long in the tooth but I just can't get another now and so far this machine has been no trouble as far as need to go out for repair so it's been a good little machine. Thank you so much also for letting me know that many 32-bit apps work up til now, that gives me happy feeling I still have perhaps a 2 OS leeway for updates.

I still plan to give this machine a thorough cleaning up, looking around there ARE things I don't or can't use anymore. I thought the Combo Updater might be a good thing to run after that. I agree that Disk Utility isn't great but I did run First Aid at least. I love my Disk Warrior! It's been the best over the years. They say you don't need to run Repair Permissions anymore and Disk Utility doesn't anymore but OnyX will.

I'll try to keep you updated as to how the machine is running as I try a good cleaning and the updater etc. If that helps me run the software update again successfully I'd feel a lot better and maybe if I'm lucky it might help someone else...

[Dreambird]

Just one more question... I promise!
If I run the 10.11.6 Combo updater will it up my iTunes from v12.6.2 to v12.7.x? The site I used to revert from 12.7 is still up and there... if needed would that work again?
If not has everyone figured out by now how to make sure you don't lose any "data" you may have in the apps before you do a clean install of any from the App Store and lose everything you've done in that app? I never did figure that out yet for sure.

Thanks

[jchuzi]

You can see if your machine meets the requirements for the upcoming release of 10.14 by going to this site. In the meantime, if everything is working OK, you don't have to be in a hurry. Eventually, Apple will drop support for 10.11 so you might want to consider upgrading to 10.13 while it's still available (and it won't be after 10.14 is released). As always in these circumstances, make a complete, working backup before you take the plunge.

FWIW, my 10.13 system works flawlessly. My present computer came with 10.10 and I upgraded each year, but only after at least two updates to the new OS. You don't have to go in increments; you can upgrade directly to 10.13 via App Store. Of course, I followed my own advice and made a working clone first (yes, I tested it before upgrading the internal drive). Fortunately, I have never had to revert. However, you may have some apps that won't work in 10.13 (and it won't be available from Apple after 10.14 is officially released). You can check compatibility at https://roaringapps.com Then, make your move, if any.

Permission repair is not possible in 10.13 via OnyX or any other app that I know of. Supposedly, it is no longer necessary or desirable.

[jchuzi]

Just one more question... I promise!
If I run the 10.11.6 Combo updater will it up my iTunes from v12.6.2 to v12.7.x? The site I used to revert from 12.7 is still up and there... if needed would that work again?
If not has everyone figured out by now how to make sure you don't lose any "data" you may have in the apps before you do a clean install of any from the App Store and lose everything you've done in that app? I never did figure that out yet for sure.

Thanks

I don't know the answer about iTunes, but App Store will give you the new version if necessary. I have never lost any data in upgrading but that possibility is why we make backups before doing anything!

[Xairbusdriver]

Good programs, even third-party apps, always keep data and app files separate. The data files may not always be easily visible, but they are never touched by updating a competently developed app. When an app gets to the point of needing to update its data structure, they will include a separate function for exactly that operation. Competently programmed apps have long ago stopped storing their data inside the apps area. I'm not sure Apple ever did. They have used extra files to store data ever since they started making "plist" files.

As for the status of your MBP, it will more than likely out live the hard drive. Except for the speaker and keyboard, there are no other moving parts of the machine other than the hard drive. Hard drives always fail, unless they are replaced before that happens. Period. Unfortunately, Apple tends to make it more difficult to replace drives, at least in mobile devices.

Your main problem, in my opinion, remains: What caused the crashed update? The obvious causes are 1. A corrupted update file and 2. A problem with the hard drive. Until that cause is determined, nothing else matters.

Item #1 is easily tried by using a new updater, preferably a Combo.
Item #2 is trickier. DW can help keep a drive working for quite some time. But it mainly is restoring the disk directory by eliminating damaged areas. It cannot repair the wear and tear of the mechanical parts that can be the cause of that damage. Regardless of how great DW is, a hard drive will eventually fail. The trick, of course, is to replace it before that time. A major OS update is probably one of the hardest things we do to a hard drive.

The 32/64 bit warning has been known to developers for almost a decade. If the apps you use have shown no efforts to prepare for that, they probably need to be replaced sooner than later, especially if they create data that is important to your career/future.

End of sermon (to you ) I gotta go 'preach' to my cat!

[Dreambird]

Well after much more poking around the net etc. I've found out that what you need to do that should be good with iTunes is manually make a regular backup to your machine or iCloud... I prefer the machine. So you hook it up to your Mac and tell it to backup now plus assign a password to encrypt the file. Then it saves "everything". It made a 2.5+ GB backup on my machine which isn't a problem as lack of space is not a problem I have. Then it saves ALL data even personal stuff and my understanding is that if you employ such a backup you should not lose anything. Also if you end up with multiple backups and find it's getting a little hoggy you can select and delete older backups from iTunes>Preferences>Devices.

Jim, That poor cat!!! 
I believe I have to put a little trust in my internal HD... it passes all tests and something in it's favour is that this one is 500GB Solid State drive. On my previous machine to this one, it was the video chip that let me down after over 9 years... the HD was still working perfectly and it was not solid state. Everything I've seen online and looking through stuff on my machine points to either corrupt or plain too old software, hence my intention to do a heavy clean up session. As I remember the update threw it's hissy fit right in the final stages as apps were loading and I noticed the possibility might well be Meteo. That app still runs and I happen to like it but I think the update does not. I won't reinstall my !0.11.6 through the App Store I intend to use a download for the Combo Update from Apple so if it leaves iTunes alone I won't be offended quite yet... I would imagine that if you want to restore a new iPad from a backup it would be best to do so from a complete backup as I described of your old one as well.

Anyway thank you Jon and Jim for the help. I'll be back with updates...

Oh, I should say Disk Warrior which I ran only about a month ago before this found my internal drive to be a "10"... not a thing out of place. However not so with the external which was back down to an "8" so I do need to be thinking about another external. I just don't have a clue what is good in that area and need some advice there too please... I don't want a huge RAID setup just to get thunderbolt and from this poor soul knows that leaves me with a portable dependent on being plugged into my machine. So what? Another Firewire and keep using the FW to TB adapter? An Apple Time Capsule? Not my first choice. Or a USB drive? Then I need to be sure of what version USB I have. System Info says my printer is hooked up via USB 3 but there are internal items like my keyboard and camera using USB 2.

[Dreambird]

Oh... BTW... Jim, howcome you didn't preach at Sooz here:
https://techsurvivors.net/forums/index.php?topic=28195.0
I noted she runs the same OS as me and people have been running into that problem with Safari too... it's not JUST her... I can't tell how new her iMac is... it runs the same amount of RAM as me, other than that no idea.

I dunno but it's my believe that people pay lotsa extra $$ to get a Mac over a PC so the hardware had better be darned good!
In fact with all the Macs I've ever owned I've never had a failed internal HD. Failed external yes, never the internal. Why do I get the idea that you maybe just like to do a little "picking on DB?"