Help!!!Mac Is Frozen on Startup

[MrsLop]

SOS...Anyone Please Help,

I have been having problems with my Mac,
now it is stuck on the
first screen with the little smiling (I'm so
glad that something is smiling,'cause it's not
me!).  I turned it off
and then on again.  I hear the chord and something churning, then I get the little Mac screen and nothing else
happens.  I am back to using my MSN TV, as my only way to communicate with you.
Can I do anything to try to fix it?


  MrsLop

[kelly]

Myrna. To start with. Hold down the SHIFT Key at Startup.

Mac OS 7.x - 9.x: Troubleshooting Startup Issues

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=16473

What has changed to cause this? Any ideas?

[MrsLop]

Evening kelly,

Everything was working.

I was still having problems with printing.
Try as I might, the Mac
was not recognizing my printer.  I went to the
Chooser and set up my printer, or so I thought.
I was on Outlook Express and I tried to do a download of a Mac Maintenance PDF attached to Dick's email.  I went to try to print and I got another PostScript error.
I got frozen in the Printing and couldn't get out of that, so I a Restart.  That didn't work.  I tried using Chooser, again.  That didn't work.  Again the
message appeared that it couldn't find my printer.
I tried setting it up again and then trying to print.  It wouldn't work.
I sent it to AppleWorks to try to print it from there.  I got the same message "PersonalLaser Writer 320 could not be found."
Finally, I shutdown the
Mac, hoping that the change would register for the Printer and I got the Frozen startup screen.
I can't get anything to load.  I tried the CD Drawer and it is working.
The fan is whirring aay.
I shut down and unplugged everything.  Replugged everything, started up the Mac and I am still stuck with the little smiling Mac on the first screen.  Sorry it's taking so long to reply,
but MSN TV is not a "real computer.."
Myrna

[MrsLop]

Hello, kelly, I got as far as Step 5. and I wound up having to  use OS 8.6 CD to get  to  my DeskTop. I disconnected everything
except the Keyboard and  the Mouse. I have all my icons but I have no Apple Menu to  speak of:  About this Mac Chooser and Control Panels (showing Apple  Talk and Startup Disk). Sherlock can be used but  the Screen Message tells  me that my Startup Disk  is locked. I had to resort to the old push the paper clip  into the round opening to eject the OS 8.6 CD,  because the Message  stated that I "could not  eject the Disk because it is the Active System  Disk." So, everything is still there in my Computer, I  just can't do anything  with it.  I can't use anything  because only the CD is being used. I may have to try to  do something else, more drastic. Myrna  
 

[krissel]

Hi Mrs. Lop,

Don't do anything drastic, please.  

The reason the message said the startup disk is locked is because you started up from the CD and CDs are locked because they can't be written to by a computer. You only had a few things in the Apple Menu because that menu came from the CD, not your regular Apple Menu on the hard drive. It won't let you drag it to the trash because the computer  is running from the system on that CD.

If you still are stuck at the smiling face on your next boot put the CD in the drive and startup from it like you did before (hold down "c" key). Once you are back to the desktop you will probably find doing a "clean install" the best bet. That means you will be putting a new system in your hard drive and basically disabling the old one. It will still be there with all the preferences you had and nothing will be thrown away. It just won't be usable. If you do this and are able to restart to the new system and all works then we will help you transfer the things you want to keep from the old system or you may just want to enter the information (like internet connection) fresh and just move printer extensions or other necessities. I don't really know what is in your present system folder that you added since getting the machine. Others who have followed your events closer may be better able to advise on this.

Here is a document that explains the clean install ...

CLEAN INSTALL

Basically you just start the Mac OS install program by double clicking the CD icon at the top right of your desktop. Then doubleclick the MAC OS Install. Follow the steps and click "Options" when available and select clean install then just follow directions. Restart when done.

[Gregg]

If I'm not mistaken, and someone please correct me right away if I am, a Clean Install (CI) will leave behind a folder called Previous System Folder (PSF). A new System Folder (SF) will be created, and it will be the "active" one. The reason it leaves the PSF behind is so that you can retrieve anything you've added to the SF along the way by copying it from the PSF to the new SF. At least, I think that happened when I did a CI last time. So, just a heads up not to be startled by that. The link for doing a CI did not mention this -ok, I did a 30 second scan of the page.  

P.S. If there isn't anything in the PSF that was added by the user, it can be thrown in the trash and forgotten.

[RHPConsult]

Gregg:


You are not mistaken.

[MrsLop]

Hello Gregg and Dick,    I am so weary, I could faint. I have been up reading until !AM this morning. I was up at 6AM to do the
clean install. I botched it the 1st time, because I couldn't find the Clean Install option. Oh, I didn't have the OS 8.6 Disk per se, I had the Update. Do I need to install OS 8.5 first and then do the Update? If I do the the Clean Install, what do I have  do to get all our information back?   My poor husband spent the last few days setting up
his address book and  school work, all his subscriptions etc..
I will also lose all my  information. I was doing really well until I botched it all up. It is a thoroughly miserable undertaking when you don't know what to do.    My husband is just beside himself over this and so am I! Myrna

[kelly]

No Myrna. You can't do a Clean Install with an Update CD.

If that's really what it is.

I'm not sure if an OS 8.5 CD will do a Clean Install to an OS 8.6 System.

Try Starting up from the OS 8.5 CD and running Disk First Aid from it.

It should be in one of the Folders.

Utilities Folder maybe.

Click on Repair Disk if it sees your Hard Drive.

[MrsLop]

Thanks kelly, I have tried everything. I did run Disk First Aid. The OS 8.6 is probably  full of corrupt files. My OE and IE are geared to OS 8.6.  That's where all the problems have  been, since July. I will have to try again  in the morning, I am really tired tonight.     Myrna

[sunset]

Hi Myrna,

I hang around a lot, do a lot of reading/learning and very little posting.    Hopefully the following information is correct and, if it isn't, someone will jump in and make it right.

First of all, I've followed your 'saga' from the beginning and give you a whole lot of credit for jumping into an 'unknown' and tackling a new format in the style you have when you're feeling so lousy.  'Congratulations' on your sticktoitiveness!!    I'm impressed!!!

Now for your 'clean install'...  I believe you need to start up from the 8.5 install CD, as described above, go to the Utilities folder, as previously mentioned, and run Disk First Aid.  If you've already done that, skip that step.  Then, as others have mentioned, double click on the 'install' icon and when the 'Options' button shows up at the bottom of one of windows, click on that.  If 'Update Driver' is selected, I'd deselect it because you're 'already there' but do click on the 'Clean Install' button.

Doing a clean install will put a new, pristine, blessed System Folder on your Hard drive.  All the things you've mentioned above that you've added to your system will still be there lurking in the 'Previous System Folder' and elsewhere in folders on your HD.

When it's done, Restart from the Hard Disk, not the CD, and I'd rebuild the desktop at that point.  Do another Restart just to make sure it's working OK and then restart again from the 8.6 CD and apply the upgrade.

If you have a way to download "Clean-Install Assistant", it's a wonderful way to add all the things back into your new System Folder from the Previous one.  It's free to home users, was written by Marc Moini and works beautifully.  The 'documentation' that's included with the program is very well written.

Hopefully this will all go well for you after your good night's sleep.    If you have any questions, please ask and I'm sure someone will come to your rescue.

Good Luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed that this all goes like clockwork!     Laurel

[MrsLop]

sunset, to "The Adventures of MrsLop in Macland." My Mac life is beginning to read like a soap opera I make mistakes - usually
using Microsoft.... My sticktoitiveness", as you call it, came as a  direct gift of my having a 7th grade Algebra  teacher who never gave up on any of her students. She had a never say die  or give up attitude. I admired her greatly. Ah, but I digress... I really have not decided what to do.  I have  created a monster from my innocent little System Mia Culpa, Mia Culpa, Mia Maxima Culpa.  For those of you who have never  Latin, it means "Through my fault, through my  fault, through my most  grievous fault."  It is  part of a prayer of  repentance and asks for forgiveness.     Well, that's
entirely my feeling. I am looking to the way in  which I handled things  with the Mac.  I had no fear (silly woman) of doing and or trying. In retrospect, I had the  "guts" but not the  "glory". I am leaning towards not doing the clean install.  I am thinking of leaving all  the old stuff behind. I don't know how to but after speaking with my husband and with his  total consent, I think that it would be better  to just start from scratch. We have very little to really lose. My husband is more  inclined to think that I need my rest more than he needs his work.  Good man, my husband. I have made the System  unstable, at the very least and unworkable. This is not a good thing. It is time to post a new query. Thank you so much for  your willingness to help me. I hope that you will feel free to visit me whenever I am on TS. Myrna