Cable modem and four computers

[Albertporter]

This is my first visit to Tech Survivors and I have a difficult question (I think).

High speed internet is being wired in our neighborhood via the local cable provider.  Now I must decide how to connect all of our computers.

(1) New Powerbook 17” 1.33GH with Airport Extreme. (2) Dual 500MH G4 tower. (3) 8500 180MH tower and (4) New custom built Win machine running XP Pro.

I was interested in Apple Airport Extreme but heard that wireless cards are not compatible with Mac 8500 180.   This old Mac has been fitted with an aftermarket USB card but USB wireless requires OS X to operate (right?) and this old 8500 Mac won’t operate in OSX.

Computer (2), the Dual 500 G4 has two hard drives.   One is exclusive OS 9.1,  the other hard drive is Jaguar.    I  need to access the internet from both hard drives in addition to the other Macintosh and Win machines.  

Is this possible without running Cat 5 hard wire?  

Separate question on same issue, will the cable providers maximum speed be achieved using this system or will it require hard wire to prevent loss of performance?

In case anyone wonders why I am running OS9, I still have software necessary to my photo business that will not operate on OSX.   Worse still, I installed and removed Panther from my new notebook when I discovered that none of Nikon's (the camera company) software was compatible beyond Jaguar.

[cdub1988]

QUOTE

This is my first visit to Tech Survivors and I have a difficult question (I think).

Welcome, Albert.

QUOTE

High speed internet is being wired in our neighborhood via the local cable provider. Now I must decide how to connect all of our computers.

(1) New Powerbook 17” 1.33GH with Airport Extreme. (2) Dual 500MH G4 tower. (3) 8500 180MH tower and (4) New custom built Win machine running XP Pro.

I was interested in Apple Airport Extreme but heard that wireless cards are not compatible with Mac 8500 180. This old Mac has been fitted with an aftermarket USB card but USB wireless requires OS X to operate (right?) and this old 8500 Mac won’t operate in OSX.

Computer (2), the Dual 500 G4 has two hard drives. One is exclusive OS 9.1, the other hard drive is Jaguar. I need to access the internet from both hard drives in addition to the other Macintosh and Win machines.

You can still run wireless. You'll have to cable the 8500 unless you can find an external USB wireless adapter that will run on 9.x, but I don't know of any right off hand (course that doesn't mean much, cause I don't mess much with wireless).

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Is this possible without running Cat 5 hard wire?

See above.

QUOTE

Separate question on same issue, will the cable providers maximum speed be achieved using this system or will it require hard wire to prevent loss of performance?

It depends on what your definition of "maximum speed achieved" would be. If you're asking if your cable provider (whom you haven't given a clue as to who it is) is going to open the pipe full out to you on a basic plan, I can tell you that I haven't heard of any that do on the basic plan, but then again, I don't mess with cable either. I'm on DSL.

I can only give you the testimony that I hear of from the cable subscribers in the town I work in and in Kansas City here. In KC, RoadRunner screams, but the residential still isn't tacked out. In the town I work in, cable is slow to a crawl. It's really bad at this point, but they're working to improve it. Comcast is also here in the area of the city I'm in, and I've heard recently that after some differing reports, that they have got it together and are running much more inline with RoadRunner's offerings.  Again, I don't know what YOUR expectation of it is, though. I mean, unless you're downloading 600+MB ISO files on a routine basis, is it really a large issue? I talked with a gentleman with one of the ISPs here in KC today and he showed me a graph of an organization that frequents the 'net and currently subscribes to an ADSL connection with 256 upstream and 768 down. Their usage was at about 5% bandwidth with a LARGE number of users, so you'll probably be good to go with cable.

Hope that helps.

Take care,

Chris

[krissel]

There are many TSers who are network experts and when they wake up tmrw I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions.

I've been researching wireless myself and tonight came across this USB wireless adapter that has OS9 drivers.
Xsense  network adapter

Don't know if that would be of help or not.

Are you trying to avoid all wires or can at least one machine have direct connection to a router?

[krissel]

More info:

Macwireless PCI card for OS9 HERE

Another USB

wireless adapter for OS9


That's it for me tonight.  

[pendragon]

Albert, First, like the others, a hearty  to TS.

And now, some comments, rather than a specific reply-

Networking is high on my (very long) list of things about which I know nothing. Still, I bumbled in to setting up a home network, such that it is.

I have a DP 800 (Panther) and an old G3 PB (9.2.2). Both are connected to my cable provider  (Comcast) via an Airport. Download speeds are typically at 2 Mbps on both machines (even when both are in simultaneous use), though the DP may be a bit faster. Comcast states they are upgrading their system (at no increase in cost) to 3 Mbps by the first of the year. My cost is $42.95 a month.

I have no problems with file sharing, but as printer sharing requires using the same OS, it is not possible unless I first boot my Panther in to OS 9. I really don’t know, but perhaps a printer router negates this requirement.

The PB requires a special card for the PC slot. I have one made by Farallon, and I am quite happy with it, but other third party products exist for "legacy" machines.

My Airport is the original graphite version and I am also happy enough with it, but my "effective" WiFi range is about 100 ft. Those with Belkin, Asante, or the like base stations, often get better range. Though getting an Extreme base station with the 250 ft. range extender is high on my wish list…

Hope these musings are of help.

Harv

[Paddy]

Welcome to TS, Albert.

I have a wired and wireless network running at home, off a D-Link Dl-614+ router. While most of the network is wired, the Powerbook (an 800MHz Ti) and the iMac (266MHz  blueberry) are wireless or sometimes wireless. The Powerbook is running Panther, the iMac is running OS 9.1. I'm using a Belkin F5D6050 USB adapter on the iMac, which works, with one caveat. You cannot start the iMac up with the adapter plugged in - it freezes the iMac. No amount of fiddling has resolved this and Belkin sent a replacement, which had the same problem. So, we simply don't start up with it plugged in.   Presumably, other models may work better, but this one was inexpensive ($29, refurbed unit straight from Belkin) and this machine is primarily used by my 8 year old, who is not as web-dependent as the rest of us! The Powerbook has an Airport card.

The D-Link router has better range than my original snow Airport base station - don't know how it would compare to the newer Airport base stations. The Apple base stations are expensive however and I don't think they have as many ports as other routers, if part of your network is hardwired, meaning that you may have to add an ethernet hub.

Adding a wireless card to your PC should be easy. There are lots of cards out there to choose from. For Macs, Proxim has a number of Mac OS 9 compatible products:

Proxim

Belkin also has a Mac-compatible (OS 8.6 and up) card:

Belkin Wireless PCI

Unfortunately, the Mac-compatible cards are a heck of a lot more expensive than the PC ones...and there are nowhere near as many of them.

As for speed - you won't get the same speed with a wireless network as you would with a wired one. When I'm just browsing the web on the Powerbook, wireless is fine. If I'm doing a major backup over the network, or transferring a bunch of large files, I plug in that ethernet cable! The difference is definitely noticeable if you're dealing with large files. Depending on your house layout & construction and the location of your base station, speed can vary in different places in the house too. And until you set the network up, you won't know how well (speedy) it will all be. In my house, the router lives in our computer room. The two rooms I'm most likely to take the Powerbook to are also the two rooms with the worst reception. Figures.

Printing wirelessly is another whole ball of wax. (I've had continuing problems with it, but that just may be me and my set up) You might want to investigate a router with a print server, though check carefully on Mac compatibility for the print server part. I know of at least one (the D-Link, I think) that only works wirelessly with Postscript (laser) printers on Macs.

If you can, I'd go with a mix of wired and wireless. If possible, hardwire your most frequently used, crucial non-portable machines.

And whatever you do, don't go buying ethernet (CAT 5) cables at some place like CompUSA, or any of the big box stores!!! They charge an arm and a leg for them. There are lots of online suppliers that specialize in various types of cables and have MUCH MUCH better prices.

[Albertporter]

You folks not only welcomed me, you may have solved my problem with your excellent information.  A sincere thank you !

Up until now we had NO high speed internet available in this neighborhood except via Direcway (satellite).  I was not impressed with the cost to performance ratio when everything was added up.

DSL has been promised (by Bell) for five years, but still no remote terminal in our neighborhood.  Comcast is our new cable provider and they are running cable in the alleys right now.   I’ve received two notices to apply for high speed, so I think this is my only option.

As for wireless versus CAT, the old Mac 8500 is my wife’s access to the internet from home.  Unfortunately this machine is in a part of the house that is nearly impossible to get hard wire to.  If I have to buy wireless for it, I thought it made sense to use wireless for all.  

When I get a break I‘ll follow the links you folks provided and do some shopping.  If I get this working and have any information to share I will post here.

[Mayo]

Albert, I have a similar situation to yours: a mixture of old and new Macs that I needed to network.  I settled on using an Ethernet cable to connect my 7300 because the cost of upgrading it to Airport is prohibitive.  Our other two Macs connect via Airport.

Be sure that the wireless router you purchase allows connecting via an Ethernet cable and wireless; when I was in the market a few wireless routers did not have the Ethernet option.

When I was pricing Airport gear for the 7300 I recall it came in at around $300, which is too much for a 6+ year old Mac that cannot run the current OS.  So unless the cost doesn't matter to you the (much) less expensive option is to either move your 8500 or use an Ethernet cable to bring the cable modem connection to the 8500.

Why can't you install the cable modem close to the 8500 or run a cable to it? You can do interior (attic or crawlspace) or exterior cable installations, and if you are handy or hire an electrician you can do some pretty trick installs that are several steps above drilling a hole in the floor and pulling the cable through the hole.

Since you are just now considering getting into broadband and networking I HIGHLY recommend "The Wireless Networking Starter Kit" by Adam Engst and Glenn Fleishman.  It is easy to understand and very complete, and I understand that the 2nd edition will soon be available and will cover the new WPA encryption standard.  The book covers both wired and wireless networks.

Good luck and let us know how it all turns out.

[Gary S]

Welcome Albert!

I see the Network gurus have been and gone.

So I'll keep my mouth shut. Do what they say...they helped me with a simple
set-up involving 2 Macs. I ran some Cat 5 down the basement and drilled a few holes in the floor and I was in business. If you have wall to wall capeting in both of the rooms no one can see the holes.

Good luck!