CDRW - backups and burning an emergency CD

[Epaminondas]

Backup, backup, backup.

Wash behind your ears, son, and backup that messy hard drive of yours.  

That's what Mother always used to say.
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I am looking for guidance in choosing between Toast Lite 5.2.1, Toast 5.2, Retrospect Express, and/or Retrospect.  I currently own Toast 3.5.2 (obsolete), Retrospect Express 4.3 (possibly obsolete), and an obsolete copy of Retrospect (from 7.5.5 days).
 
The last time that I really looked into backup choices was around 1996, and I think that things may have changed just a little bit since that time.  ;-)
 
The current situation: I've just put together a "new" Mac - a B&W 450 running MacOS 9.2.2 - and have added a bootable internal 48/24/48 ATA Plextor CDRW . Unfortunately, Apple's "Disk Burner 1.0.2" utility, included in the MacOS 9.2.2 utilities folder, does not support this burner. So - no burning or backup software yet - that is the next step - the CDRW is currently just acting as an expensive CDROM.  
 
Two things I would like to do with this CDRW:
 
(1) Backup (and be able to restore!) about 200 MB of data to a CDR reliably on approximately a weekly basis with verification during burning on one machine.  Simple.  No need for compression, scheduling, backing up networks, or indexing or any other sophisticated features.  Blank CDRs with plenty of room are dirt cheap - no need for any of the complex software backup features that once seemed so important in the name of conserving backup space.
 
(2) Burn a bootable emergency repair CDR with all my repair utilities on it for troubleshooting the Mac when there are problems.  No need to burn MP3s, music, games, etc., etc.
 
 
When last I looked into this, circa 1996, it was my understanding that Retrospect was the cat's pajamas for backup, and Toast for burning, so I bought both.  I ended up not using Retrospect - it was too complicated for me - seemed like a zillion options and a 300 page manual, as I recall.  How to backup distant hard drives from across the planet using secure encryption - that sort of thing. A difficult to read 300 page manual.  Great for every option in the world, but overkill for my simple needs. Later, I tried again with Retrospect Express.  Same result.  (No disrespect to Retrospect aficionados intended).
 
I found it simpler to backup the one 200 MB data folder just using Toast 3.5.2 via drag and drop and burn with verification. Just been doing that ever since.  Unfortunately, I have never needed to restore a backup - nothing has ever gone wrong with the machine - so I don't know if restoring it would actually work. :-(

 
My plan has been to buy the current version of Toast (5.2 for MacOS 9.2.2) just to update my current backup method - but I wonder if some new thinking might be in order. Toast Lite might do the trick - I cannot find any information anywhere giving the difference between Toast and Toast Lite.  Anybody know if Toast Lite will do reliable verified data backups and burn bootable emergency CDs?
 
I don't see a real need for Retrospect or Retrospect Express - but perhaps I am missing something important.
 
Any guidance would be appreciated.
 
 
Thank you,
 
Epaminondas

[Paddy]

Might be easier to get that Plextor working with Disk Burner. There are instructions on how to do it here:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/DiskBurn_Tips.html

If you do a search in the drive compatibility database on XLR8yourmac, putting in the speed of your drive (a recently added feature) you'll find one report from a user who did the hack and got it working fine in OS 9. Mike asked him to send the hack, but I'm not sure if he did or not. You should have a look in the FAQ file for a hack for that drive - I went through the first page but didn't see one, but I don't know your model number either.

[krissel]

Here's a page comparing Toast 5 to Toast 5Lite:

Toast 5 comparisons

The lite version usually comes with a burner and isn't available as a separate product if I'm not mistaken.
I used Toast Lite 4.xx for some time with no difficulty in burning any backup or boot CDs.

But some time ago I got Toast 5 Titanium which comes with all kinds of extra stuff that you may not need now but may find nice to have on hand in the future.

Since you are doing simple once a week backups I don't think you need to bother with Restrospect. I was in the same situation as you, an old version that I never used, then got a newer free version with something I bought, never used that either.
 

[Epaminondas]

Questions:
 
(1) Will Apple's Disc Burner in Mac OS 9.2.x burn bootable CDRs?
 
(2) Has anyone out there ever actually used a CDR backup made either by Apple's Disc Burner or via Toast/Toast Lite to recover their data after a hard drive disaster?  
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Paddy,
 
You're the cat's meow!
 
I got it burning.
 
It's a long story - you know me - but the bottom line is that I am now the proud creator of four shiny new coasters, burned via a freshly hacked copy of Apple's Disc Burner 1.0.2. :-)
 
The CDRW is a Plextor PX-W4824A, driver ver. 1.4.7, revision 1.01.  Internal, running on a B&W 450 on MacOS 9.2.2.  Currently no MacOS X on this machine.  The CDRW works fine on my Linux machine - data and bootable CDRs.  Using good blanks - Taiyo Yuden 48X.
 
Checked out www.xlr8yourmac.com as per your kind guidance. The available hacked file would not load - I think it was for MacOS X.  So I did a little ResEdit hacking on my own machine - it has been a while - as per the instructions on xlr8yourmac, and whadya know - the CDRW burned under Apple's Disc Burner 1.0.2!

Victory!
 
The burned CDR - which had a MacOS on it burned from a separate volume from the startup disk - burned with minimal extensions while doing nothing else on the machine - looked fine on clicking around, but was not bootable either via the Startup Disk control panel or via holding down the "C" key on startup. Disk Warrior 2.1.1, looking at the CDR from my hard drive, could not create a graph or go any further due to "directory damage" on the CDR - "Error: (2401, -60)."  Trying to startup Norton Disk Doctor 6.0.3 on my hard drive with the new CDR on the desktop froze the computer so hard that it required pulling the plug to shut it down.  And the computer was still acting strange on reboot even after the CDR had been removed - i.e., it would not boot to the hard drive volume that was actually highlighted in the Startup Disk control panel, despite quite a bit of fiddlin' - finally did with booting with extensions off, then PRAM zapping.
 
Tried burning four different ways - with and without OSs on the CDR, recording off the same volume or a different volume - all had the same result.  Even a CDR with just one little SimpleText 1.4 file on it.  Same problems.  Four coasters is enough for me -

My tables will be dry for years.
 
Only other thing that I can think of would be to upgrade the CDRW's firmware and try again - but it would apparently require a Windows PC to flash the firmware, and a Windows PC is what I do not have.  Oh, well.
 
Maybe it's time to dual boot my Linux machine with Windows - only for updating firmware on various peripherals.
 
A pretty forlorn use for Windows.  But two OSs is enough for me - I have no interest in learning a third.
 
Looks like the ResEdit hack was superficial on this particular CDRW - probably a lot of other things going on under the hood.
 
Computer has been Disk Warriored, PRAM zapped, etc., and now seems back to normal.
 
It was fun.  :-)
 

Thanks, again,

Epaminondas
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Krissel,

Thank you for the Toasty comparisons - exactly what I was looking for.
 
And your thoughts on Retrospect are a reassuring confirmation.
 
See ya,
 
Epaminondas