Author Topic: Color correction.  (Read 3512 times)

Offline cdub1988

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile
    • http://
Color correction.
« on: March 19, 2003, 10:05:00 AM »
I need help (besides the obvious)  

I need to know how you can go about setting up your machine to allow the colors you choose with a swatch or on-screen to match up with the print colors.

The printer in question is a Tektronix Phaser 850N.

I can set printer specific options in the print dialog, but I can't seem to figure out why the colors aren't matching (or even necessarily close).

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Chris

P.S. - It hasn't mattered which program it's printing from (Quark, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc.)
Umm, I'm a nerd.

Offline snuffysbluff

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1374
    • View Profile
    • http://
Color correction.
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2003, 10:47:00 AM »
I'll be interested in the responses to your post also.

The scans to the monitor look great but the prints are sad. I'd love to find a way to print closer to what the monitor shows.

The only thing I've been able to do to get colors to print close to the original art is: Select a 1" x 4" rectangle of the art that includes the colors I'm concerned about, print it (saves ink) and adjust colors, curves and etc. in the app until I get an acceptable print. Reds and Blues seem to be the worst.

Post production Companys seem to have the expensive stuff to get great prints. Most agencys have them do the pre-print work
 
 [ 03-19-2003, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: snuffysbluff ]

Offline cdub1988

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile
    • http://
Color correction.
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2003, 11:04:00 PM »
Yeah,

The blue in particular in this instance is a major culprit.

There's a text box with a PMS blue that isn't coming out even close to what it should.

I just installed a new maintenance kit in the printer, cleaned as directed for the switch, and still no change.

It's got to be in the settings, no doubt, but I don't know WHAT to set to WHAT.    

Take care, snuffy.

Chris
Umm, I'm a nerd.

Offline Bruce_F

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
    • View Profile
Color correction.
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2003, 11:11:00 PM »
Chris, a few details might help troubleshoot your problem.

1. What operating system are you running?
2. What method of monitor calibration are using?
3. Are you printing through the latest Tektronix print driver?

OS 9 is more difficult to work with as matching color goes. I had some success, but I could not depend on anything staying calibrated.

OSX seems to be fairly stable and consistant on my computer.

I am using ColorSync control to adjust the monitor. In Adobe software, I use the default settings that are recommened. My Epson printer driver has almost too many settings, but I have found the ones that do the best job of reproducing the color I see onscreen.
-Bruce-

Offline Thomas S. England

  • Super Duper Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 615
    • View Profile
    • http://englandphoto.com/portfolio/
Color correction.
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2003, 11:15:00 PM »
Here's a tutorial from Apple:

http://www.apple.com/creative/resources/co...lor/1intro.html

There are so many variables at work in the printing process.

Try going in reverse:  Print an image, then go back to your computer and use ColorSync & Displays to get the image on your computer to match the print. Not especially suggested as the preferred method, but this may get you in the ballpark.
Thomas S. England
Decatur GA 30030

Images from Tuscany 2008

Photo Portfolio

Offline Paul.Tait

  • Super Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
    • View Profile
    • http://www.creamink.com
Color correction.
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2003, 11:50:00 PM »
Hi Chris

To really get your screen to match up to your printed colours (and that's presuming your printed colours are accurate in the first place), you'll probably need some sort of monitor calibration hardware of the type shown here . Sorry this is UK based, but it should give you the idea.

With regard to your printed material, it all depends on what type of calibration you're using. We've just got an HP Designjet 50ps and have set up calibrations for the different types of paper we use - matt, proofing semi matt and proofing gloss etc. I don't know how your printer works, but this one prints a sheet of colours and then scans it itself, sending the information back to the RIP to ensure colour accuracy. We have found it to be extremely accurate and a proof printed out on proofing gloss, looks no different to a Cromalin and can be passed to the printer with complete confidence. It also handles Pantone colours very well.

None of this will probably be of any help to you, but one thing I know is that colour is not an exact science and trying to achieve uniformity between monitor, printer, printed sheet and human eye is fraught with difficulties. Doesn't mean you can't try though!    

Good luck

Paul

Offline Mayo

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 3215
    • View Profile
    • http://
Color correction.
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2003, 12:18:00 PM »
Having only recently upgraded to Photoshop 7, all my image files have been saved as Photoshop 4 files.  Photoshop 7 has different color management tools than 4, so I won't even attempt to explain what I haven't bothered to learn myself...yet.

Years ago I learned how to calibrate my monitors on a very basic level, and it has always worked for me. The type of photography I do generally requires minimal manipulation in the digital realm, since I do it all in the camera via film/filtration/lighting.  But some of my images can include skin tones, bright colors and a relatively wide contrast range, so they can be somewhat demanding when it comes to printing.

If I am photographing for publication I use in-camera methods as much as possible to make an image that will reporduce well.  I don't think much of leaving problems to be fixed in Photoshop, unless it would take more time to do so in-camera or a problem cannot be reasonably addressed except through digital manipulation.

Most of the time all I need to do with a scanned image is sharpen it and I use a Photoshop plug-in called TestStrip http://www.vividdetails.com to automatically expand the dynamic range of the image.  TestStrip does this step without altering the image's overall color balance, something that often happens in PS 4, requiring further adjustments.  I have no idea if it is the same with PS 7, but it sure speeds up the work-flow to use TestStrip in place of PS for basic adjustments.

Essentially all I have to deal with are the variables introduced by converting a film image into a digital one.

Unlike a lot of my peers, I use Apple's ColorSync control panel to calibrate my monitors.  The most crucial step in my experience was changing the monitor color temp setting to 6500 degrees Kelvin.  Otherwise, I just followed the visual, low-tech calibration steps and saved the profile.

It has been six years or so, but I seem to remember that I also had prints with excessive blue, and the switch to a 6500 color temp made all the difference.  It makes sense, because a warming filter counteracts blue on film, but I could be mistaken about such a conversion from monitor-to-print.  if I am, someone will no doubt let me know!

I have done this with two CRT Macs and two different Epson printers, and the prints look great.  My test image is a delicately-lit woman welder that has pale skin, a yellow hard-hat (yellow can be especially tricky to accurately reporduce on an inkjet...), a bit of white t-shirt and a background with lots of contrast.

ColorSync is OFF; it seems to be a lot more trouble than it is worth...at least in my experience it is.  I let the Epson driver handle the image conversion and I like to use the driver image controls to make small adjustments, primarily regarding contrast, but I don't need to do it very often.  That is the beauty of having images that print close to how they are rendered on your monitor.

When I print black and white images I use color ink and the duotone presets in the Photoshop Goodies folder.

It is important to remember that like photographing for offset or web printing, going from a monitor RGB image to ink on paper means the image is going to change somewhat, but I think that most people can learn to judge how to create a digital image that reproduces nicely on an inkjet.

Mind you, all my prints are done using Epson paper.  Paper is an important variable and I have found that I get the best results if I use Epson paper and ink.  It sure is the easiest way, and I am definitely into  easy.    

Of course, you aren't using an Epson printer, but maybe this info will be helpful anyway...
 
 [ 03-19-2003, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Mayo ]

Offline tacit

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1628
    • View Profile
    • http://www.xeromag.com/
Color correction.
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2003, 01:54:00 PM »
Rich, saturated blues will always be a problem.

Your computer monitor is RGB. I'm guessing that your picture is also RGB.

Your printer prints in CMYK, not RGB. Vibrant, saturated colors--especially blue--simply can not be reproduced in CMYK, ever.

It's not a color management issue. It's not a problem with your computer or your printer. It's not something you're doing wrong. Rich, vibrant blue can not be printed on any CMYK device, be it a printing press or your printer, under any circumstances; the laws of physics forbid it.

Most of the PANTONE colors (about 75% of them, in fact) simply can't be reproduced accurately in CMYK, and there isn't anything you can do about it. Sorry...
A whole lot about me: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

Offline Mayo

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 3215
    • View Profile
    • http://
Color correction.
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2003, 02:21:00 PM »
Sorry, I read the initial posts quickly and thought that you were referring to a blue cast, not a blue color swatch.  Hopefully my previous lengthy post will prove useful to somebody.  Of course, a monitor that isn't calibrated is just going to add to the problem...
 
I am mystified by Tacit's claim regarding color printing limitations... I have multiple examples of what I would call "vibrant" colors, including blue, that were printed on an inkjet printer and by offset lithography (CMYK) and they look plenty vibrant to me.

Maybe I don't really know what "vibrant" is...

Plus I get confused about whether we are referring to printers (inkjet) or printers (pro offset).  Mea Culpa!

On the other hand, attempting to accurately print PMS colors on an inkjet printer may be a lost cause, because as Tacit implied, PMS does not translate to CMYK accurately in many cases.  Here is a brief explanation:

http://graphicdesign.about.com/library/wee...ly/aa060399.htm

Wouldn't it be simpler to design something using non PMS colors if you know that the final output is going to be on an inkjet?  This doesn't address the problem of creating an image on one computer and then giving it to someone else to print.  Then you need a way to insure that everyone is on the same page, meaning an effective color management process.
 
 [ 03-19-2003, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Mayo ]

Offline Sarah Raleigh

  • Poster Child
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Color correction.
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2003, 03:05:00 PM »
I deal with this problem on a day-to-day basis. It makes my life miserable. My lastest client has a logo I designed using PMS 286 (rich dark blue). Their printer is printing it out at about more like PMS 313 (peacock blue)... in other words, totally off. My advice to them was to use the professionally printed letterhead, or get some kind of color management system for their computers (Windows - which I'm not very familiar with - I use ColorSync for my Mac, which is pretty good). I also printed out a long list of color troubleshooting tips about their printer off the hp website. You might want to try doing the same for your printer. But I would definitely advise using some kind of color management software!

For photos, we match our monitor to the printout and go from there. It's the best method as far as I'm concerned. (We have two computers, one that we do most of the photo work on and one for graphic design).

Hopefully color management will become less of a hassle in the near future. I'm patiently waiting!

Offline snuffysbluff

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1374
    • View Profile
    • http://
Color correction.
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2003, 03:49:00 PM »
There are a bunch of blue colors...separate and distinct colors. I think accuracy may be too much to ask of a printer with just one blue in it's well.

As Tacit said, cmyk is the key. We may be able to match our PS cmyk settings more closely to the print out.

Offline snuffysbluff

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1374
    • View Profile
    • http://
Color correction.
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2003, 04:06:00 PM »
<-----------Good effort, Jennie.
 
 [ 03-20-2003, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: snuffysbluff ]

Offline krissel

  • Administrator
  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 14735
    • View Profile
Color correction.
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2003, 10:16:00 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by snuffysbluff:
Good effort, Jennie.  

Nice avatar, Gary.


A Techsurvivors founder

Offline snuffysbluff

  • TS Addict
  • *****
  • Posts: 1374
    • View Profile
    • http://
Color correction.
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2003, 07:57:00 AM »
&%$&#@!&%#$#!! Clandestine co-conspiritor  

<------------Now that's a good blue.