Newbie Seeking General Advice Concerning Cost/Value vs. Specs

[amk285nyu]

I've been researching the Macbooks on Macmall with the intent of purchasing one. Now, I see that the latest generation of MacBook Pro's come in either the 2.2GHz or 2.4GHz models (for the 15") and the 2.4GHz (for the 17"); however, I think it might be a better deal for me to go with one of the 2.33GHz models from what I'm assuming is the previous generation of Powerbooks.

I've boiled it down to these three (the prices quoted are from MacMall):

MA 611LL/A: $2350, 17" TFT, 2.33GHz, 160GB Hard Drive, 256MB Video RAM, 2GB RAM (3GB Max), 8x SuperDrive, 667MHz RAM/Bus Speed
MA 896LL/A: $2350, 15" TFT, 2.4GHz, 160GB Hard Drive, 256MB Video RAM, 2GB RAM (4GB Max), 8x SuperDrive, 800MHz RAM/Bus Speed
MA 610LL/A: $2050, 15" TFT, 2.33GHz, 120GB Hard Drive, 256MB Video RAM, 2GB RAM (3GB Max), 6x SuperDrive, 667MHz RAM/Bus Speed

Here's two things you should know regarding my perspective as a consumer:
1) The hard drive memory is easily the least important spec quoted here to me- I have a 500GB external hard drive, and don't think I'll ever be limited for mobile operation by 120GB size.
2) I doubt I'd ever shell out to upgrade my RAM memory from the pre-installed 2GB on all these models, but if that would really contribute to increasing the functional longevity of the computer down the road, I'd like to know, and would therefore consider it more acutely.
3) There is also the M895LL/A (the 2.2GHz model from the latest generation), but it only carries 128MB of the GDDR3 SDRAM (what I've labelled here "Video RAM"). My last PowerBook aged very quickly, I learned, in its ability to play internet video- particularly WMV and Shockwave-based video (like at YouTube). I'm assuming this is the most important spec to maintain fluid graphics. So I'm thinking I definitely want a 256MB version. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, so for the same price ($2350) between the M611 and M896, it pretty much comes down to the Bus Speed. I figure it's a much better deal to go with 2" more screen. How important is the Bus Speed? How important is the Max RAM? Are there any major criteria I'm unaware of? Considering what I've told you, which of these would you buy?


Also, I was directed to MacMall by some Mac users at another forum (just a general interest forum, though). I found the M611LL/A here for $1500- a massive $850 less! It just doesn't seem plausible. Is this website reliable? Where would you purchase one of these computers?
http://www.electroforless.com/index.php?ta...;product_id=109

[Paddy]

Starting with the last question first - there's an old adage: if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Stay away from these guys - very far away! Read on:

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller_info...3#comment329103

As for the choice of MacBook Pro, if lugging it around isn't going to be an issue and more screen real estate is something you think would be useful, I'd tend to go with the 17". The small jump in speed with the 15" probably won't be all that noticeable. I have the 15" 2.33 GHz and love it, but I also have a G5 with a 24" Dell monitor, so screen size wasn't as much of an issue. I was more concerned with portability.

MacMall are very reputable dealers. You also might want to check Apple's refurbs at their web site - they're usually in pristine condition and problem free (I've bought one as have many others here).

[jepinto]

Before you order, you may want to check out NYU's Online Store  You could qualify for the educational discount.

I found 2G ram sufficient until I tried to run Parallels, along with 3 or 4 other programs.  So I jumped to 3.  2 was plenty until I threw everything at it at once.

One consideration I found important was the speed of the hard drive.  Stock is 4200 or 5400 rpm, some built to order have a 7200, but then I tend to have 7-10 applications open at once, and most are Adobe products.  The faster the better.

I bought mine at Macconnection.  Free shipping and the rebates were better when I was shopping.

[Xairbusdriver]

You may want to check on the maximum RAM possible in those 'older' models, also. I think they are limited to 3GB whereas the latest can go to 4.

Bus speed is probably next in important to drive and CPU speed, at least if there is a lot of data transferring (video/image/music editing/changing/playing) going on.

Never say "Never" when considering your needs/wants! When you discover that you need/want do more, you'll not be sad that you can't!

[amk285nyu]

QUOTE(Paddy @ Oct 3 2007, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Starting with the last question first - there's an old adage: if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Stay away from these guys - very far away! Read on:
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller_info...3#comment329103

Ah, yes. I suspected as much, but I couldn't confirm at ConsumerReports or the Better Business Bureau. Thanks for the heads up.

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Oct 3 2007, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You may want to check on the maximum RAM possible in those 'older' models, also. I think they are limited to 3GB whereas the latest can go to 4.

Bus speed is probably next in important to drive and CPU speed, at least if there is a lot of data transferring (video/image/music editing/changing/playing) going on.

Yeah, that answers my #2. Like I said, I didn't think I would ever upgrade the RAM (because in several years I intend to purchase a desktop), but then I read...

QUOTE(jepinto @ Oct 3 2007, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I found 2G ram sufficient until I tried to run Parallels, along with 3 or 4 other programs.  So I jumped to 3.  2 was plenty until I threw everything at it at once.

One consideration I found important was the speed of the hard drive.  Stock is 4200 or 5400 rpm, some built to order have a 7200, but then I tend to have 7-10 applications open at once, and most are Adobe products.  The faster the better.

Yeah, I definitely want to be able to run Windows. I remember on my old Powerbook G4 (the first model, from autumn of 2001) I got Virtual PC, and it was just useless because it took ten freaking minutes just to explore a directory.

So if you were making this purchase, considering your usage, would you want a model that could be upgraded to 4GB? Or do you think 3GB would do it (or at least for 2-3 years, before I buy a desktop)?

Also, the stock hard drive is 5400rpm on all of these. How much would it cost to upgrade to 7200rpm? Also, is there a cheaper way to upgrade RAM? I went to the Apple store just to get an idea, and they charge $700 to upgrade the latest MacBook Pro's from 2GB to 4GB. That's almost a 1/3 the price of the computer.


Thanks a bunch, guys. This has been unbelievably helpful.  

[Mayo]

I think that 128MB of VRAM is plenty for Internet video.  Where you will see a difference is running video-intensive games and video editing. But it isn't much of a difference... BareFeats tested the 128MB and 256MB MacBook Pros and found at best a 9% increase in speed with the 256MB card. On average it was only a 5% increase in speed. BareFeats questioned whether a maximum 9% speed increase is worth an additional 20% in cost between identically configured 2.2 and 2.4 Ghz MBPs. The cost differential is greater if you stick with the stock MBPs. (The 17" MBP at best ran 11% faster than the 128MB 15" MBP.)

The 128MB VRAM in the MacBook Pro is sufficient to drive a 24" Dell monitor at its native resolution of 1920x1200.  256MB may come in handy if you use an external monitor and the MBP screen simultaneously because the VRAM is split between the two screens. If you use the MBP in "clamshell mode" (meaning the MBP is closed...) then it is a non-issue. If you like to keep a lot of windows open and/or simultaneously use graphics-intensive apps then you could experience a "choppy" GUI when using an external monitor and the MBP screen at the same time. Pairing an MBP with a 30" Apple Cinema Dislay might benefit from a 256MB card. (BareFeats is developing tests to see if there are situations where 256MB makes a significant difference in video performance.) But I'm talking extreme circumstances here... For most of us 128MB VRAM is going to be all we need to keep us happy.

The 17" is large, too large IMO for use on an airplane. If you plan on using the MBP as a "desktop" Mac some of the time I would suggest considering the 15" and an external monitor.  You would gain a LOT more screen real estate for equal or less $$$ than the 17". A Dell 24" costs between $550 and $650, with the lower price range regularly available due to sales. (I recommend Costco.com for the Dell and other monitors because of Costco's 90-day return policy.) The 17" is getting big for a portable computer... there is a difference in portability between the 15" and 17" MBP.

One thing to consider is that the current 15" MBP models have new LED backlit displays and more than a few folks are reporting problems with them.  The current 17" display is the same as previous models.

Here are the BareFeats CPU tests that show the difference between previous models and the new MBPs with the faster bus. The 2.16 Ghz MacBook performed surprisingly well against the MBPs in all but one test.  Too bad the MacBook is only available with a glossy screen.

Here are links to portable Mac info at Macworld.com.  The full reviews feature charts that compare the specs of current and previous MBPs, including video capabilities. I have found the reviews very helpful when comparing models. The video specs will make it clearer whether you really need more VRAM for your intended computer activities. And many video-related discussions can be found at the MacNN.com MacBook Pro forum.

DealMac is a good place to keep track of MBP specials.  You can register to reeive an e-mail alert when a new deal is posted. I created an alert using the keywords "MacBook Pro" and made a filter in my e-mail program so that DealMac e-mails immediately open on my desktop. It gets me the info ASAP (but not soon enough for me to grab a refurbished 15" 2.16Ghz MBP for $1500 at the Apple Store!)

[Xairbusdriver]

Almost any place will offer RAM at better prices than Apple. They seem to charge the highest price they paid for RAM, no matter what happens to the price later on. But that makes their on-line store pricing easier and simpler. Plus you don't have people clamoring for refunds because the rpice went down the day after they bought it! Even Crucial (who claims to supply Apple) has better prices.

I've bought it from several places but sometimes they go out of business due to the price fluctuations. Best bet is to stay with the longest operating company you can find and one that offers a lifetime (question is, whose "lifetime!" ) guarantee and compatibility with the machine you're buy RAM for. The last RAM I bought (5/3/07) was 2 matched 1GB chips for $119 w/shipping from OWC. I have also bought from other places, but not in a long time. Others here can give more current vendor info for the exact RAM you'll need.

[amk285nyu]

Mayo, thank you. That is one of the all-time greatest posts I've read in any forum. You couldn't have more precisely answered my every question (especially those unasked). Beautiful.

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Oct 3 2007, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've bought it from several places but sometimes they go out of business due to the price fluctuations. Best bet is to stay with the longest operating company you can find and one that offers a lifetime (question is, whose "lifetime!" ) guarantee and compatibility with the machine you're buy RAM for. The last RAM I bought (5/3/07) was 2 matched 1GB chips for $119 w/shipping from OWC. I have also bought from other places, but not in a long time. Others here can give more current vendor info for the exact RAM you'll need.

And thank you, Airbus. Yes, I'm more into reliability and consistency than saving a few bucks. All I need is one reliable vendor. OWC it is. Thanks for letting me know about them. $119 is a much more appealing number than $700.


Once again: you guys are awesome.

[jepinto]

OWC's MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo upgrade page.  The MBP's come with 2G ram, so you will have to replace one or both sticks to upgrade.

If you have ANY questions, Eric at ext 110 has always been a great help.  He has answered all I've thrown at him, plus some.  And he has stopped me from a dumb mistake or two.  OWC has been around for some time, and many here will agree they are most helpful and trustworthy.  And they will give you a REBATE-though not much- on the stock ram and hard drive.

[jepinto]

And here are MBP 17" benchmark tests.

[Mayo]

You are very welcome.  I am considering getting an MBP to use with an external monitor and your query moved me to do some more research about portable Mac video capabilities...

[Mayo]

Evaluating the MacBook Pro 15 inch LED-backlit display

While it is geared toward photographers using a MBP in the field, the article contains an overview of portable Mac screens past and present as well as detailed info on the new LED MacBook Pro screen. It convinced me to Bite The Bullet and get a new MBP vs. a previous model...

NOW I'm just waiting for Leopard to be released!