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Author Topic: Secure Delete Trash  (Read 1793 times)

Offline kimmer

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Secure Delete Trash
« on: March 10, 2012, 01:50:45 PM »
I have some files I wish to "secure delete" from my trash. I know about Finder > Secure Empty Trash and that's good for my main drive. However, these files are also backed up in my SuperDuper Backup as well as my many TimeMachine backups.

Is it safe to simply use the finder to locate these files and then drag them to my trash can and use Finder > Secure Empty Trash on the files? Or is there a special way to deal with deleting files permanently from SuperDuper and TimeMachine?
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Offline jchuzi

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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 02:55:06 PM »
I can't vouch for the TM backup, but you can boot from the SD backup and use Secure Empty Trash from there. Alternatively, while booted from the main drive, trash the file from the SD backup and then use Disk Utility to Erase Free Space.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 02:59:35 PM by jchuzi »
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Offline Jack W

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Secure Delete Trash
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 03:28:40 PM »
Kim,

Here's an article from Apple on deleting TM files. Sorry I don't have reference to the original article.
Also, this is not a secure delete, but does remove all the TM copies.

But, anyway, FWIW:

[attachment=2514:Remove_i..._Backups.jpg]
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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Secure Delete Trash
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 04:38:01 PM »
Apple does not (nor anyone else, for that matter) recommend using Finder to "mess" with TM backup files. TM is more than a collection of files, it's actually just a collection of one copy of any file and multiple links to it. So deleting a file mostly just damages all those links and possibly the database that is the real 'brain' of TM. Think of TM as Mother Nature, and we all know it's not nice to 'mess' with her! eek2.gif

SD deletions have already been covered.

I question remains as to why you are concerned about a "Secure Delete." Unless you are selling/giving away a computer/hard drive, I don't see much need for that procedure. A 'deleted' file doesn't really take up any space on the drive, even though it may actually still be there. The regular delete has already marked the directory 'map' to show all that file's space as being available for writing new stuff; it will be only a matter of time before that happens, of course.

If you actually are giving/selling some hardware, a reformatting of the drives is probably better, anyway and Disk Utility has some pretty secure, if time consuming, methods of making sure no one will ever see those old files. wink.gif

And, if you're simply trowing a drive away, there's always the brute-force deletion technique...a 5 to 15 pound sledge hammer! Also good for getting rid of stress and inter-personal tensions... scram.gif
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Offline Jack W

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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 05:41:52 PM »
Jim,

This was an Apple method of deleting TM files/folders using TM, not Finder.

I cannot attest to the method for removing from SD! clones, altho, if you delete from the main drive, then re-clone, the files should be gone.

As you said, the above are not secure deletes.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 05:52:27 PM by Jack W »
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Offline kimmer

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Secure Delete Trash
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 05:50:56 PM »
Jon and Jack, thanks.

Jim, and anyone else who is curious, these are very sensitive files that I had to scan and upload to a secure site. I don't want any trace of them left on my HD, or my backups. If I can't secure delete, then I'll seriously considering reformatting my TM drive and starting it fresh.
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 08:49:20 PM »
QUOTE
This was an Apple method of deleting TM files/folders using TM, not Finder.
I'm aware of that, but the OP had asked about using Finder and I wanted to be sure she didn't do that. I was just re-enforcing your warning. wink.gif salute.gif

As for the SD backups, it depends on how it is being done. If you are using the "Copy newer" or "Copy different" method it will not remove any files.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 09:22:51 PM by Xairbusdriver »
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Offline kimmer

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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 10:37:31 PM »
QUOTE(jchuzi @ Mar 10 2012, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't vouch for the TM backup, but you can boot from the SD backup and use Secure Empty Trash from there.

Done. Files now gone from SD backup. Of course, I'm now on hour 2 (1.5GB of 97GB done) of TM going into overdrive and seeming a fresh drive and doing a full TM backup of the SD backup. I didn't think about this taking place or I would have made sure TM wasn't up and running. wacko.gif wallbash.gif  

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 10 2012, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE
This was an Apple method of deleting TM files/folders using TM, not Finder.
I'm aware of that, but the OP had asked about using Finder and I wanted to be sure she didn't do that. I was just re-enforcing your warning. wink.gif salute.gif

As the "OP", my thanks to you both as I forget how sensitive TM is and way back when I had actually copied/deleted files via the finder instead of TM. I know better now, didn't then. I'm fortunate I didn't screw everything up. wink.gif

Still haven't figured out how to dump these files from TM, but I have another external drive and I might simply switch TM to that and reformat the drive it's so laboriously writing to as I type. laugh.gif
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Offline kimmer

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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 02:17:25 PM »
QUOTE(kimmer @ Mar 10 2012, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course, I'm now on hour 2 (1.5GB of 97GB done) of TM going into overdrive and seeming a fresh drive and doing a full TM backup of the SD backup. I didn't think about this taking place or I would have made sure TM wasn't up and running. wacko.gif wallbash.gif

Sure don't want to repeat this again any time soon. Twelve (yes, 12!) hours for TM to prepare backup, dump files for room, backup, dump files, and then the drive needed to "adjust" itself (I guess it was 'defragging'?). Good grief. I am NOT looking forward to putting the new external together.

I still can't find a simple way to dump these files securely off the TM partition, so I'll probably reformat the entire drive and start fresh. Drats.
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 08:32:06 PM »
From now on, why not create a "Secure" folder for items you plan on needing to 'Secure Delete.' Then, tell TM NOT to back up that folder.

I'm totally confused about what your are having TM do that took so long. dntknw.gif
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Offline kimmer

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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 11:34:52 PM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 11 2012, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From now on, why not create a "Secure" folder for items you plan on needing to 'Secure Delete.' Then, tell TM NOT to back up that folder.

Good idea on the secure folder for the future. Hopefully I'll never have to scan these documents (or something similar) again.

QUOTE
I'm totally confused about what your are having TM do that took so long. dntknw.gif

That makes 2 of us. laugh.gif So here's what I think took place:

I have 2 drives:
  • HD on my iMac
  • External HD, which is partitioned thusly: A) TM backups, B) SuperDuper bups (and you don't need to tell me this isn't wise, but it was the best option I had at the time and I will be correcting it this next week)

So, in order to dump the secure docs off the SD bups, I restarted my iMac, holding down the option key. Screen shows my 2 drives. I select SD and start up. It loads. I find very sensitive docs, move to trash, go to finder menu, select "Secure delete trash" and it starts. As it's deleting, TM kicked into gear and said, "HEY! A drive I've never backed up. I'd best do that." I didn't have time to say no, and having read horror stories of folks who did stop TM bups, I figured I'd let it do it's thing. And it did. And it did. And it did. And it did. And it did. tongue.gif It backed up the SD drive and it backed up my iMac - twice actually as it looks like it ran the 2nd time around 4am (not that I was awake to know this at the time).

My conclusion is that since it had never backed up the SD partition before, it took a long time for it to do so. When I got up at 7am this morning, the external drive was working away. I don't really know what it was doing, it wouldn't talk to me; but trying to restart earned me a "I'm busy and you can't do that" alert. So I left it alone to read/write/move/whatever. After 12 hours, it finally came to a stop and as quick as a bunny I restarted. Of course the drive loaded and TM said, "Oh, I haven't backed up the iMac in days", and began to work. Took it a bit, but not long and once the drive was again quiet, I ejected it and turned it off.

Thus the saga ended for another day.

I still have to wipe those docs off the TM drive.
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Offline jchuzi

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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2012, 05:40:00 AM »
Here's a quick thought:

The first time that I enabled a TM backup, it was taking forever so I stopped it. At that time, I had Intego VirusBarrier. On a whim, I disabled it, restarted TM, and it went fine. Does this help?
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Offline kimmer

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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2012, 12:51:25 PM »
QUOTE(jchuzi @ Mar 12 2012, 02:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The first time that I enabled a TM backup, it was taking forever so I stopped it. At that time, I had Intego VirusBarrier. On a whim, I disabled it, restarted TM, and it went fine. Does this help?

Good thought. I do run Sophos. Next time ... may there never be a next time. wink.gif
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Offline Xairbusdriver

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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2012, 07:33:02 PM »
Run, do not walk, to the TM prefs and tell it to ignore the SD partition. Even though it made a backup of it it may think it needs to do it more often since I don't know what kind of SD backup you're doing...TM may see a lot of "new" files on the SD partition at least once a day.

The great time consumer was simply TM doing a "first time" backup. They always take the longest. It ptopably didn't help that both partitions were on the external drive. The files may have had to travel down that cable twice while being also written to the internal drive. dntknw.gif
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 07:34:07 PM by Xairbusdriver »
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Offline kimmer

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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2012, 08:25:09 PM »
QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Mar 12 2012, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Run, do not walk, to the TM prefs and tell it to ignore the SD partition.

That is the way it's set when I boot from my iMac, but I was booted from the SD partition and apparently when it was created those TM prefs didn't transfer or something. dntknw.gif Now that I'm booting from my iMac, TM hasn't bothered with backing up the SD partition.  clap.gif thumbup.gif
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