A Question of Semantics?

[sokukodo]

I had always assumed the "rucksack" & "backpack" were two words for the same thing. But is there a difference? Browsing the LL Bean catalogue reveals separate categories, merchandise separated, "Backpacks" over here, "Rucksacks" over there. I'm confused.  

[Highmac]

Well, www.thefreedictionary.com says, quoting Collins English Dictionary:

QUOTE

Rucksack: a large bag, usually having two straps and a supporting frame, carried on the back and often used by climbers, campers, etc. US and Canadian name backpack. [from German, literally: back sack]

So it seems they're just being multilingual

[krissel]

I think rucksacks tend to be more military in style and geared toward hiking, camping or traveling with lots of stuff. Backback is a more general term which encompasses all styles of pack that would have shoulder straps but possibly more contemporary in looks, material, color, etc. Usually the rucksacks are available in browns, greens and other dark colors.

Rucksacks are backpacks but maybe not all backpacks could be called rucksacks.

Got that?  

[Highmac]

QUOTE(krissel @ Jul 11 2010, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rucksacks are backpacks but maybe not all backpacks could be called rucksacks.

Got that?  

Really, it's far too early on a Sunday morning....  

[krissel]

Or very late for a Saturday night....

[dboh]

I just finished reading a novel, One Day, by David Nicholls (who seems to be either British or Scottish), and he used "rucksack" throughout the book. I didn't get the impression that a character carrying or packing their rucksack was carrying or packing something large. It seemed to me that rucksack was British-speak for backpack.

[sokukodo]

Yes, I had thought that the terms were interchangeable until I saw L.L. Beans's catalogue ... Krissel, I've always associated "rucksack" with "old" military (WWI, for instance), and seemed to have a faint English/German connotation ... having said all this, I bought a rucksack (it's on its way now): http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/49400?paren...tn&cat4=816 ... been looking for a decent "backpack" for my daily walks (love my hickory walking stick).

[Xairbusdriver]

...What a minefield so many seem unaware of entering!

BTW, kriss, what is a "contemporary...color?"

QUOTE

more contemporary in looks, material, color

I was under the impression that all colors have been around since the beginning of time, if not longer. Are you saying that there are more recent, contemporary colors that were not know dozens/hundreds/thousands/millions or years ago?

BTW, sokukodo, successful as L.L. Bean is, they do not, yet, have control of the 'American' language... "rotfl:

[sokukodo]

I think you're correct, Xbd!

[gunug]

QUOTE

I think you're correct, Xbd!

I have always had a belief, disputing what L.L. Bean might think, a rucksack has no frame but a backpack "might" and probably does have a frame. What is a kit-bag?  I know about all the other slang used in this song XABD!

QUOTE

Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,
And smile, smile, smile,
While you’ve a lucifer to light your fag,
Smile, boys, that’s the style.
What’s the use of worrying?
It never was worth while, so
Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,
And smile, smile, smile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pack_Up_Your_...our_Old_Kit-Bag

I love the Dutch version of the song; not because I can read the lyrics but it "sounded" fantastic when I heard it at the Liberty Memorial (Kansas City WWI Museum):

    Pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit!
    Aan alle moeilijkheden heb je lak, fluit man en 't is uit!
    Waarom zou je treuren, het helpt je niet vooruit,
    Dus: pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit

This is copied from the Wikipedia website; I'd like the other lyrics but I'll search for them as well!

[gunug]

Nevermind: I'm off to pack all my troubles into a rucksack because they're too big for my kitbag!  

Package already you look in your togs pocket and whistle, whistle, whistle!
To all difficulties have you lake, whistles man and ' t is from!
Why you would lament, it does not help you,
Therefore: package already you look in your togs pocket and whistle, whistle, whistle

This is Babelfish Dutch to English for:

Pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit!
Aan alle moeilijkheden heb je lak, fluit man en 't is uit!
Waarom zou je treuren, het helpt je niet vooruit,
Dus: pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit

I wonder what would happen if I translated English to Dutch again on the same page (with apologies to Dutch speakers):

Het pakket reeds u kijkt in uw plunjezak en het fluitje, fluit, fluit!
Aan allen hebben de moeilijkheden u meer, fluitjesmens en ' t is van!
Waarom u zou betreuren, helpt het u niet, Daarom:
pakket reeds u in uw plunjezak kijkt en het

Oddly enough "nevermind" in Dutch is "nevermind" in English!

If you translate the entire webpage and cut out what the above says you get this in DoubleDutch:

Nevermind: Ik moet weg al mijn problemen in een rugzak inpakken omdat zij voor mijn kitbag te groot zijn! whistling.gif

Het pakket reeds u kijkt in uw plunjezak en het fluitje, fluit, fluit!
Aan allen hebben de moeilijkheden u meer, zijn de fluitjesmens en 't van!
Waarom u zou betreuren, helpt het u niet,
Daarom: pakket reeds u in uw plunjezak kijkt en het fluitje, fluit, fluit

Dit is Babelfish het Nederlands aan het Engels voor:

Al van Pak je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit!
Aan alle moeilijkheden heb je LAK, fluit is de mens Engels 't uit!
Zou van Waarom je treuren, het helpt je niet vooruit,
Dus: pak al je zorgen in je plunjezak en fluit, fluit, fluit

Ik ben wat benieuwd zou gebeuren als ik het Engels opnieuw aan het Nederlands op de zelfde pagina (met verontschuldigingen aan Nederlandse sprekers) vertaalde:

Het rietu van Het pakket kijkt in uw plunjezak en het fluitje, fluit, fluit!
Aan Allen hebben DE moeilijkheden u meer, fluitjesmens is Engels 't bestelwagen!
Uzou van Waarom betreuren, helpt het u niet, Daarom:
pakket rietu in uw plunjezak kijkt en het

Vreemd genoeg genoeg „nevermind“ in het Nederlands is „nevermind“ in het Engels! And to add to that comment Babelfish seems to work better now than in earlier days.  Maybe Yahoo has been a good influence!

[krissel]

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ Jul 11 2010, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...What a minefield so many seem unaware of entering!

BTW, kriss, what is a "contemporary...color?"

QUOTE

more contemporary in looks, material, color

I was under the impression that all colors have been around since the beginning of time, if not longer. Are you saying that there are more recent, contemporary colors that were not know dozens/hundreds/thousands/millions or years ago?

Actually, yes.

I doubt seriously that our prehistoric ancestors used orange, magenta, purple, chartreuse, turquoise, etc. in the coloration of their carry bags. Me thinks they were more of the animal fur colors as you see on this page of "rucksacks".

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/506221?nav=fn-ln

On the other hand, these pages of backpack styles, materials and colors are contemporary IMO.  

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/506217?nav=fn-ln

Remember, the title of this thread is "A Question of Semantics?"  

[gunug]

No, I only had a single glass of white wine at lunch today; and it was a normal sized glass!  

[Highmac]

This is NOT a thread that should be revisited at 6.30am when the last post read was Number 6.....

QUOTE(dboh @ Jul 11 2010, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

David Nicholls (who seems to be either British or Scottish)...

Since we're on semantics.... Saying someone is "either British or Scottish" is a bit like saying someone is "either American or Californian"     The Britain bit of the UK (full title The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland), is made up of England, Scotland and Wales. So all Scots, Welsh and English are British – whether or not some of them like that fact
So the Scots are unlikely to object if you call them British. Just don't, whatever you do, call them English!    

Here endeth today's lesson

[krissel]

Yep.

Like my rucksacks/backpacks ditty (there's another term for it)....

All Scots are British but not all Brits are Scottish.