Email

[Paddy]

QUOTE(lizharbin @ May 28 2015, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE(Paddy @ May 27 2015, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Um, Liz, it's really better NOT to start new threads on the same issue. If you were having a different issue, then yes, by all means, but it gets very confusing if you have two threads going on exactly the same problem.

Anyway - do you happen to have a Time Machine (or cloned) backup?

Now would be the time to try rolling back to a spot when Mail was working - I'd try restoring your entire user->Library->Mail-V2 folder and see if that helps. And then replace the Mail preference files too. Then restart Mail and see if that works.

Another option - recreate your mail accounts in Thunderbird. It's free - you can download it here: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/

The really nice thing about it is its setup - you really can see what it's asking, what you've put in and whether it's working properly or not. It's great for troubleshooting mail issues. I know - I spent hours doing it this morning when 5 Hostgator mail accounts on two different domains decided to stop working  (it turns out it's an Apple/Hostgator issue of unknown origin - I'm not the only Hostgator customer with this problem and it's been kicked up a level for further study and no doubt, some conversations with Apple. Nothing to do with your issue...but Thunderbird was quite helpful, in proving that it wasn't MAIL per se, but rather an Apple-Hostgator issue, as it's happening on phones and iPads and also with older Mac OS', but not on Windows machines).

Also, Yahoo IMAP email is NOTORIOUS for issues - I had a horrible time with it for several weeks back in February. It was a Yahoo/Rogers issue, but it took them weeks to fix it (stuff wasn't syncing). Rogers, my ISP, uses Yahoo, and since we have Rogers here and at our summer place, I'm not about to abandon my primary email addy.

At this stage, if you cannot get Mail to work again, and you don't have a backup (you could restore the app itself from Time Machine too), you may want to consider reinstalling the OS. But make sure you have a backup in place before you do that.

First, starting a new thread came about because I thought I was changing the subject. I didn't start a new thread one time and got dressed down.  

I do have Time Machine. I also have a exterior hard drive. It's been several since I did any backing up. I assume mail would be there only old.

There is a lot recommended here so where would be the best starting place?

You say,

QUOTE

I'd try restoring your entire user->Library->Mail-V2 folder

Do you have a link for instructions?

I'm not sure how

QUOTE

recreate your mail accounts in Thunderbird

works. Downloading it, I can do but how would Thunderbird recreate the mail app?

QUOTE

(you could restore the app itself from Time Machine too)

Do you have a link for explaining this? Or would you advise that I start with the least invasive thing and go from there? If there is any such thing.

Also, when I opened Mail in another users name, mail is all there, including all my folders, sending and receiving as ever. The only thing I see wrong is that it is formatted just like web mail. It's better than not having email at all, but the reason for working so hard for the mail app, as I've always known it to be, is the ease of use.

I'm afraid I'm now quite confused as to what you're doing/have done. Starting with your last statement - "I opened Mail in another users name, mail is all there, including all my folders, sending and receiving as ever...."

Um...do you mean you created another USER account in the System Preferences, logged in as this other user, and then put in all the settings for your Mail (Yahoo and me.com accounts) and everything works? The display is a preference - go to Mail->Preferences->Viewing, and change it to what I suspect was "Classic view"....

Anyway - if that's the case and Mail is working fine if you're logged in as a different user, then there is nothing wrong with the accounts themselves; you've got a corrupt file/preference somewhere.

Please let us know if that is in fact what you've done before we go any further.

As for the backup situation - there are words missing in what you typed, so I'm not sure when you last did a backup and therefore whether the backups would be of any use.

[Xairbusdriver]

QUOTE

I do have Time Machine. <CHOPPED> It's been several [days/weeks/months?] since I did any backing up.

Have you ever used Time Machine to restore anything? It's almost as simple as letting it make backups.

I'd suggest simply Restoring your Mail Prefs file first.

Step 1. Try to remember the date you noticed having these Mail problems.
A. Open a Finder window.
B. "Enter" Time Machine.
a. Use the TM icon in the Menu Bar.
b. If the TM icon is no in your Menu Bar, open the TM System Prefs and check the "Show Time Machine in menu bar" and Quit System Prefs. Return to step 1.B.
Step 2. There is a column of marks on the extreme right-hand side of the screen, each mark is for a specific day or week or month. The date will show as you move your cursor up and down over the marks. Click on the date just prior to the date you decided on in step 1. You will see the 'stack' of Finder windows disappear [hide] until the one for the date you selected is at the front of the 'stack'.
Step 3. Navigate to the location of the file/folder you want just as you would in a Finder window.
Step 4. Select the item. Click the 'Restore' button. You will now be returned to your regular Desktop.

Since you are "Restoring" an item, you will be asked if you want to keep both the old and new item, only the new one, or to cancel the whole action.

QUOTE

I assume mail would be there only old.

True, but it's not really the mail messages that you want, unless it turns out that one of them caused the problems. Your mail messages are actually still on the IMAP servers, except for ones you've deleted. All we're trying to do at this point, is to get the Mail app to work. If Restoring the Prefs file doesn't work, we can then decide on the next step. Remember, one step at a time. That's why we like to have a single thread when working on a single problem. It's difficult enough to track what has happened in one thread, spreading those suggestions and replies over two or more threads becomes extremely difficult.

[lizharbin]

I see I need to answer some of your questions or state what I have already done.

QUOTE

I'd try simply Restoring your Mail Prefs.

Xairbusdriver, I've moved "com.apple.Mail.plost" twice and each time I checked it had been restored.

QUOTE

I'd try restoring your entire user->library->Mail-V2 folder

I had already moved parts of this folder to a folder on the desktop. So, per your advice, Paddy, minutes ago, I did the same with the entire folder. I then opened Mail. The screen didn't open so when I pointed the curser on the Mail icon in the menu bar I got the horrid spinning wheel.

I guess the next question is, how do I restore Mail-V2? Or, what is my next step?

[Xairbusdriver]

QUOTE

I've moved "com.apple.Mail.plost" twice and each time I checked it had been restored. [emphasis added]

This sounds like you moved the file to your Desktop or even the Trash and restarted Mail. That is not using Time Machine, it is simply letting Mail recreate the plist. That's what any app does when it can't find its plist. However, if the data it is putting into the 'new' plist is bad/corrupted, then the 'new' plist will still contain that bad/corrupt data. Since you ran Mail in a different USER account (I think), then we can assume that the app itself is not the problem. The exact, same Mail app is being used by all USERS. The problem is most likely in the data it loads from the plist.

What we are talking about is using Time Machine to replace the current plist with one from the past; one when Mail was operating normally/correctly. That is the primary purpose of Time Machine; Restore an item with a known, working, version. "Restoring" with Time Machine does not involve the user moving or deleting anything.

The instructions for restoring anything with Time Machine are in my last post. The only thing I would add to those would be to actually select whatever it is you want to "Restore" in the Finder window, before even opening Time Machine. I think TM will then have that item at least showing, if not selected, in the stack of windows displayed.

It might have helped people understand what Time Machine can do if it had been named "An Amazing File, Folder, Application, and General Machine Restorer". OTOH...

Have you, perchance, read "Eats, Shoots & Leaves".

[lizharbin]

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 29 2015, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE

I've moved "com.apple.Mail.plost" twice and each time I checked it had been restored. [emphasis added]

This sounds like you moved the file to your Desktop or even the Trash and restarted Mail. That is not using Time Machine, it is simply letting Mail recreate the plist. That's what any app does when it can't find its plist. However, if the data it is putting into the 'new' plist is bad/corrupted, then the 'new' plist will still contain that bad/corrupt data. Since you ran Mail in a different USER account (I think), then we can assume that the app itself is not the problem. The exact, same Mail app is being used by all USERS. The problem is most likely in the data it loads from the plist.

What we are talking about is using Time Machine to replace the current plist with one from the past; one when Mail was operating normally/correctly. That is the primary purpose of Time Machine; Restore an item with a known, working, version. "Restoring" with Time Machine does not involve the user moving or deleting anything.

The instructions for restoring anything with Time Machine are in my last post. The only thing I would add to those would be to actually select whatever it is you want to "Restore" in the Finder window, before even opening Time Machine. I think TM will then have that item at least showing, if not selected, in the stack of windows displayed.

It might have helped people understand what Time Machine can do if it had been named "An Amazing File, Folder, Application, and General Machine Restorer". OTOH...

Have you, perchance, read "Eats, Shoots & Leaves".

I'm sorry. I was answering a "I would try this first" post. I have your Time Machine instructions printed out to try since all else seems to have failed. I'm also trying to follow Paddy's instructions of "try this first". In the mean time I'm getting everybody confused.

[Xairbusdriver]

Not sure how you are responding to suggestions in posts, but you do not need to quote an entire post. If you have a reply/report/response to a single suggestion, just copy and paste that part of the post and then type your answer/reply/response.  A "quote" is nothing more than some text with the 'quote tags' on each end.

CODE

[quote] at the beginning and [/quote] at the end.

You can quickly type those 'tags' or use the buttons in the Full Editor.

Quoting the entire post just gets excessively long (like my typing! ). BTW, there are some tips/instructions on how easy it is to format a post in the <Using the formatting functions, A hopefully helpful guide> pinned thread. Quoting is specifically covered in post <#5> and you don't need Mail to be able to read it.

[lizharbin]

Paddy said,

QUOTE

I'm afraid I'm now quite confused as to what you're doing/have done. Starting with your last statement - "I opened Mail in another users name, mail is all there, including all my folders, sending and receiving as ever...."

Um...do you mean you created another USER account in the System Preferences, logged in as this other user, and then put in all the settings for your Mail (Yahoo and me.com accounts) and everything works? The display is a preference - go to Mail->Preferences->Viewing, and change it to what I suspect was "Classic view"....

Anyway - if that's the case and Mail is working fine if you're logged in as a different user, then there is nothing wrong with the accounts themselves; you've got a corrupt file/preference somewhere.

Please let us know if that is in fact what you've done before we go any further.

Paddy, I hope we are talking about the same thing as far as "another USER account". I'm sure I can confuse anyone since I'm old and don't remember computer lingo and names of features, etc. Most of the time I don't know which is the dock and which is the menubar.

To try to explain, at some point I set up another computer user. I needed it to check something else that wasn't acting right for me. I clicked my name in the menu bar, went to the other user, which happens to be in my late husband's name. That is where I set up email and where it appears to be webmail. Only, I can access it by way of the Mail app in the dock. Does this, at least somewhat, clear that up?

Does this mean my Mail app is fine and something in my email account is corrupted and I have to find out where and what it is?  

[Xairbusdriver]

QUOTE

Does this mean my Mail app is fine and something in my email account is corrupted and I have to find out where and what it is?

[lizharbin]

QUOTE

What we are talking about is using Time Machine to replace the current plist with one from the past; one when Mail was operating normally/correctly. That is the primary purpose of Time Machine; Restore an item with a known, working, version. "Restoring" with Time Machine does not involve the user moving or deleting anything.

Xairbusdriver, I don't think Time Machine is going to do me any good because I had auto backup turned off. I must have done something with Time Machine in 2012 but no date appears in the timeline before today. It shows "now" and "today" everything else is greyed out.

[lizharbin]

QUOTE(Xairbusdriver @ May 29 2015, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

QUOTE

Does this mean my Mail app is fine and something in my email account is corrupted and I have to find out where and what it is?

  for the kudos. You're a hoot.

[Xairbusdriver]

QUOTE

You're a hoot.

Well, my Dad's name was "Al".

[lizharbin]

Mail has rebuilt brand new in my Mail app. Checking user->library->Mail; com.apple.Mail.plist and the V2 folder are showing up there. I understand since Mail is still not functioning properly, somewhere there is still bad/corrupt data.

Here is where I am now:

I can get as far as writing an email but clicking 'send' causes Mail to freeze. Trying to access preferences it freezes. Does that give you an indication where I can go now to clear this up?

It would make sense, in hind sight, to have been using Time Machine so I would have a pre-trouble time to go to. There just has to be a way to do what I need to do even if it is the hard way.

There is the option of going to the Apple Store but you can call me stubborn if you want to; I've been called it before. I prefer tenacious.    

[Paddy]

QUOTE(lizharbin @ May 31 2015, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mail has rebuilt brand new in my Mail app. Checking user->library->Mail; com.apple.Mail.plist and the V2 folder are showing up there. I understand since Mail is still not functioning properly, somewhere there is still bad/corrupt data.

Here is where I am now:

I can get as far as writing an email but clicking 'send' causes Mail to freeze. Trying to access preferences it freezes. Does that give you an indication where I can go now to clear this up?

It would make sense, in hind sight, to have been using Time Machine so I would have a pre-trouble time to go to. There just has to be a way to do what I need to do even if it is the hard way.

There is the option of going to the Apple Store but you can call me stubborn if you want to; I've been called it before. I prefer tenacious.    

Liz, given that you've tried various things AND Mail works just fine on another account, I'm tempted to get you to try the last option in this article:
http://www.macissues.com/2014/10/19/fix-ma...ng-to-yosemite/

QUOTE

Remove and rebuild Mail’s container

Mail is a sandboxed application in OS X, meaning that like many other applications it and its resources are isolated from other processes for security and stability reasons. As part of this setup, OS X will create a virtual container in which the program accesses the system resources it needs, and does so by accessing parts of the OS X filesystem through a special directory tree in your account’s library. This directory tree primarily contains aliases, but also contains files specifically for Mail, such as its preference and cache files.

If you remove the container for Mail, OS X will simply rebuild it and have Mail re-create the files it needs; however, doing so will clear out settings contained in these files, requiring you to set these up in Mail again. These can include mail accounts, signatures, smart mailboxes, and mail filters, so if you remove and rebuilt Mail’s container, expect to set these up again.

With this in mind, before clearing Mail’s container, be sure you have a full backup of your Mac. Then access the Go menu in the Finder with the Option key held down, and choose the menu item called “Library” that appears. In the Library folder, go to the Containers directory and move the folder called “com.apple.mail” to your Desktop (so you can restore it easily, if needed). After this, re-launch Mail, configure your e-mail accounts and other settings, and you should be up and running again.

Again, because of potential complications with setting up Mail, use this option after you have tried all others, after you have created a full backup, and only do so if you cannot get Mail to launch properly by any other means.

However, PLEASE make a full TimeMachine backup before you do anything more. (yes, even thought it's a problematic version of Mail, everything else is working, so BACK IT UP!!) Since you only have the two email addresses and both are IMAP, it's easy enough to set things up again. I wouldn't want to have to do that, since I have 15 email addresses in use at the moment in Mail, and it would take me a while, but 2 is a relative piece of cake, and rather than putzing around some more trying to find what bit is corrupt, might as well just start fresh.

And PLEASE - read the directions carefully, and follow them exactly.

Then report back.

[lizharbin]

QUOTE

Liz, given that you've tried various things AND Mail works just fine on another account, I'm tempted to get you to try the last option in this article:
http://www.macissues.com/2014/10/19/fix-ma...ng-to-yosemite/

Paddy, before looking for the Containers directory I tried again rebooting in "Safe Mode". I haven't taken it out by restarting the computer, although, I will shortly. In "Safe Mode" I again moved the com.apple.Mail.plist and the V2 folder to the desktop. (Those have again rebuilt.) Having no result, I opened the Containers folder and did a thorough search for the “com.apple.mail”. Unless I misread the instructions and found a different Containers folder (the instructions called it Containers directory) nothing pertaining to mail is there.

The path I took to get to it was, Finder, held the Option key, selected Library from Go Menu. Opened the Containers folder. I could do a screenshot to show you what is in it but I can assure you, assuming, I followed the correct path, no “com.apple.mail” exists there.    

Then I called the Best Buy Geek Squad. !! To make a long story short, after doing their remote diagnostic, they offered three options: take the computer either to one of their stores or an Apple Store, or, as I think you suggested, use the disk to remove and restore OS. ?? The third might well be the path I'll take and that is to abandon my current user site and establish another one.

I bought this iMac new 8 years ago. I'm wondering if having a good Apple tech give it a thorough look-over would be a good idea. They might even find a solution to the Mail problem. What do you think?

[Paddy]

Liz, restart (not in Safe Mode) - I have no idea what you'd see or not see in Safe Mode. Then go look for the com.apple.mail file in the Containers folder.

Let us know.

If that doesn't work...

As for anything related to Best Buy, I wouldn't let 'em near my Mac for love nor money. If you take it anywhere, take it to an Apple certified repair service or an Apple store.

However, I'd try backing up your entire HD using Time Machine first, then try reapplying the combo update.

https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1524?locale=en_CA

If that doesn't work, then come back here and let us know.

Also, if you don't have a boatload of stuff to copy over, you could just manually copy all your documents etc. to an external hard drive and then create a new user (with working Mail) and then copy all the documents into the new account from the external HD. Once you get everything working and are SURE you have all your documents/photos/music etc, then and only then, you can simply remove the faulty account. But it really depends on how much stuff you have and how difficult it would be to recreate everything.