Need to get a CD burner

[Russ Kidd]

Kelly,

I see what you mean.  Thanks for the perspective.

[krissel]

Unless I'm missing something kelly's link is to a SCSI drive NOT a burner.

There is a SCSI burner farther down the page but it is over $200.

Generally speaking SCSI peripherals are more expensive than firewire or USB.

Yes, there is a possibility of firewire problems but same with SCSI. All in all a firewire card will not only give you the option of a CDRW but also an external drive, scanner, etc. and you don't have to worry about SCSI ID's,  termination and inability to hot plug. A USB card opens up to using all the new printers as well.  The combo FW/USB cards take only one slot but more people have trouble with them than with single cards. My cheapo CompUSA  combo card works fine for USB but not FW. My separate FW card works great.

Oh, and the PCI cards were put in before I upgraded the processor.

I have a 4x16x4 external SCSI CDRW which has performed like a trooper. But with the new burn speeds and ease of firewire, the only way I would recommend playing with that old SCSI chain is if you have nothing else connected and don't plan on keeping the 9600 much longer.  Then it might make sense, but I haven't seen an inexpensive external SCSI CDRW.

 

Forgot... about 9.1, it is the best for your machine. You can run 9.2 with a special hack but  I frankly don't see the need unless you have some application that requires it like the new Painter 8. I did copy some parts of 9.2 (extensions) from my PB that were suggested  for the best use of my new processor but otherwise it's all 9.1.

[kelly]

Doh.

What I saw was just an External CD-ROM.

I still think it's a good idea for the same reasons I've mentioned.

Check out some info here for your setup Russ.

http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/drivedb/sear...h.drivedb.lasso

[Bill]

I agree with Krissel on the firewire hot plugging.
Easy example is I picked up a little external firewire hub.
If I need a firewire device temporally tied into the system, just plug it into it's own power source, then into the hub ... all with the system running etc.



.


pssssst .... another reason why I agree with Krissel is because she never jumps on me about my top-notch grammar.

[krissel]

Other points for consideration:

One benefit of the SCSI CDRW is bootability. I can use the Yamaha 4x16x4 to boot from should my regular CD drive fail. You could of course install a burner in place of the internal CD drive but that is another ball of wax.

If you do go SCSI consider the speed of the external SCSI chain at 5MB/second. That is pretty fast for most burning speeds but at approx 150KB per burn speed you have to do some math to find the limit, say around 32x would be pushing it. On the internal SCSI chain you have a 10MB/second speed. Something to think about.

Still like the idea of FW, though.



Oh Bill, you know I wouldn't jump on you for your grammar.

Some other reason maybe...    

[Russ Kidd]

Man, there's a lot to think about here!  

I would love to have the convenience of the Firewire and USB and the ability to, for example, have a USB printer, but I took a look at the CDRW reports at the link you gave me, Kelly, and there are some definite hassles possible with Firewire.  On the other hand, there were a few stories with SCSI too.

Yesterday I went to a Mac store near me to see what they had in the way of CDRW's and Firewire cards.  They only carry one kind, a La Cie unit that they sell for $189, which comes with Toast Lite.  I asked the guy why they only carry one brand and he said they consider La Cie to be the best.  They have two kinds of Firewire cards:  3-port and 6-port.  He mentioned a price of $89 for a Firewire card--not sure if that's for 3-port or 6-port (probably 3-port).

This probably sounds blasphemous to all of you, but one thing I could do is just take my machine to them and have them install a Firewire card with the La Cie CDRW on the condition that I get a refund if they can't make it work.

I always hate to have someone else do it because you don't learn anything yourself about your equipment and next time you have to have someone else do it for you again.  But I also hate to get really stuck and spend hours and hours.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind you all trying to talk me out of giving in!

I do appreciate you spending so much time with me on this.  

[krissel]

I can't tell you what to do since you know what is comfortable for you but if you have the least bit of "handiness" you can put in your own cards with little effort.

A 3 port FW card should not cost more than $30 max and you can get a 52x burner for around $120+.

Here are some of  OWC's products which are warranteed and most TSers have been very happy with their service and products. I am a very satisfied customer.

FW card

52x burners

I have the first 52x burner listed although I bought the parts and assembled it myself. I don't think you would be unhappy with that deal and all that is included. I can vouch for the fact that the burner works with our machines.

I was very nervous about going into the case and moved in slow motion the first time I opened it being very careful not to touch anything. By the time I finished with the upgrading I could almost do it blindfolded. Installing PCI cards can be very easy or you may encounter one that doesn't sit right or needs to be in a different slot. That is something you can't tell until you try. But if you are interested in learning about the innards of the Mac and want to feel confident mucking around you have to get your feet wet sometime.

 

Oh, here's something else to check out:
USB card

[Bill]

QUOTE

Some other reason maybe...  

 Me-sa such a nice guy too

[kelly]

Russ. Don't go through that mac shop.

You could buy a newer machine for what they're wanting to do.

Adding a PCI Card is not a big deal.

Just be glad that's a 9600 and not a 9500.

[kelly]

Just for fun.

http://new.lowendmac.com/imac/edeals.html

[Russ Kidd]

You've all been so helpful.  I really do want to learn about my machine, but just haven't taken the time to get into it.  I'm actually a pretty handy guy and enjoy this sort of thing, but have so little time to spend on it.  One thing that's hard for me is I get easily frustrated when I get stuck.  That doesn't help!  Thanks for the great info and encouragement.  

[Epaminondas]

Russ Kid,

An alternative that might work:  an internal ATA/EIDE CDRW running off a PCI ATA/EIDE card.  Your 9600 has plenty of room for both.  Just check out for compatibilities, first.

Advantages of the ATA/EIDE route over some other solutions:

(1) Cheap.  ATA/EIDE CDRWs are the standard internal CDRWs in PCs.  Both Plextors and Lite-ons would likely work in your Mac.  You can usually pick up a 52/24/52X Lite-On or Plextor ATA/EIDE CDRW for around $50 if you keep an eye peeled on Dealmac.  The ATA/EIDE PCI cards were running around $70-80 on OWC last time I looked.

Lite-Ons are the choice of the value/features crowd.  The typically more expensive Plextors are the choice of serious audio types and people who prefer higher quality/quieter mechanisms with minimum burning errors - many consider the Plextors to be the gold standard CDRW burner.

(2) Speed.

(3) The ATA/EIDE PCI card would open up your Mac to cheap IDE hard drive and Zip drive and CDROM possibilities.

(4) Noise - external enclosures often have noisy fans.

(5) Upgradability.  Compatibility with OS X.x.x.


Media:  Taiyo Yuden CDR blanks are the widespread choice of CDRW fanatics.  In lab tests, they typically have the fewest errors. I believe that Taiyo Yuden invented CDR media, so they have been at this for a little while.  These CDR blanks can be a little hard to find branded as "Taiyo Yuden," but all FUJI CDRs made in Japan (not Taiwan) are Taiyo Yuden.  You can typically pick up a spool of 50 Fuji/Japan CDRs for a good price - there are often rebate deals out there if you want to hunt for them.


Good luck,

Epaminondas

_______________________________________________________________________

ATA/IDE PCI controller cards (check with OWC for which will handle bootable drives and ATA devices):

OWC


EIDE internal Lite-On 52/32/52X CDRW for $30:

EIDE Lite-On internal CDRW for $30

[Russ Kidd]

Thank you, Ep.  I have a few questions:

How hard is it to install an internal CDRW versus an external?

QUOTE

(3) The ATA/EIDE PCI card would open up your Mac to cheap IDE hard drive and Zip drive and CDROM possibilities.

Could you elaborate on this a bit?  My novice brain needs a little additional.  (By the way, my 9600 has a second hard drive (Seagate) and an internal CD-ROM drive.)  When you say Zip drive, do you mean adding a high-capacity Zip in addition to my original 100 MB Zip?  I saw a 750 MB Zip disk the other day--is 750 MB the current Zip standard?

[Epaminondas]

RussKie -
 
 
<< How hard is it to install an internal CDRW versus an external? >>
 
 
External - plug in and go.  Easy as pie - as long as everything works.  There are termination issues if you are going SCSI - they are beyond the scope of this course.
 
 
Internal - one or two steps more difficult than adding RAM.  The only tool you will need is a screwdriver that fits whatever screws you will be using.  Typically a small Philips.
 
Still no guarantee that software and hardware will be compatible - you need to try to determine that ahead of time.  One good way is to check out the www.xlr8yourmac.com drive compatibility database.  Other is to ask the nice folks at OWC.  Buy on a charge card with lotsa guarantees.  Understand return policies!
 
Open up machine.  Your new internal ATA/EIDE CDRW typically comes with mounting screws and an ATA/EIDE ribbon cable, but ask the seller first to make sure.
 
You will need a free 5 1/2 inch external drive bay - probably above or underneath your current CDROM.  You pop the little plastic cover off (gently - do not throw it away), screw in the CDRW (four little screws), plug the cable into the back of your new CDRW, thence  to the ATA/EIDE PCI card, and you should be good to go.  
 
Oops - one important detail - you will also need a power cord to the CDRW.  Same kind as fits into the back of a hard drive or a CDROM.  Look around all the wires coming out of your power supply or attached to other drives (do unplug your computer from the wall/UPS and "ground" (well "equalize") yourself by touching the unplugged power supply before touching the computer internals first!).  If you have no extra internal drive power plugs available, buy a Y-plitter when you buy the CDRW - this will allow one cable off the power supply to feed two devices.  The guys selling you things will know what you need.
 
 
<< Could you elaborate on this a bit? My novice brain needs a little additional. (By the way, my 9600 has a second hard drive (Seagate) and an internal CD-ROM drive.) >>
 
The stock 9600 350 is an excellent machine - it's a real chick-magnet.  But it is SCSI-based.  No ATA/EIDE/IDE.  None.  Nada.  Sorry.
 
SCSI is better than ATA/IDE for all sorts of excellent reasons, but ATA/EIDE is much cheaper.  Cheap wins out over quality in my book any day.
 
 
Your 9600 has six PCI slots - one for the video card, the others are likely open.  If not, you have some interesting exploring to do. This was the most upgradeable Mac, to my way of thinking, ever made.
 
So - you just stick an ATA/IDE PCI card into one of the open slots - and the whole new world of cheap ATA/EIDE/IDE devices becomes open to you.  Just make sure when you buy it that it is bootable and that you can run CDRWs off of it.  Note - these PCI ATA/EIDE controller cards built for PCs will not work in Macs - the Mac versions are more expensive than the PC versions (welcome to the world of Macintosh!).
 
The 9600 is a big box with lots of power and lots of room inside.  Internal expansion is the 9600's forte. No need to go with the higher expense, noise and clutter of external devices.  

If you do not fill a 9600 up, it will go hungry and it's stomach will rumble day and night and you will be very, very sorry.

Internal is good.

 
<< When you say Zip drive, do you mean adding a high-capacity Zip in addition to my original 100 MB Zip? I saw a 750 MB Zip disk the other day--is 750 MB the current Zip standard? >>
 
As far as I know - yes.  Your limit is the limit of available external drive bays.  Start countin'!

But once you have a good fast CDRW, you will likely find that you have no reason to bother with  a Zip drive.  After installing my CDRW, well - I haven't used a Zipper in years.
 
 
Off for a few day's adventure.  Don't cut yourself (you won't on a Mac box - they are a pleasure to work in).
 
 
See ya when I get back -
 
Epaminondas

[Epaminondas]

One last thing -

The people here know a lot about the 9600 - ATA/IDE and SCSI.  You might want to look around a bit first - the search button is your friend - before asking quesitons.