OT: Good car for Wisconsin in the Winter?

[Epaminondas]

Milady is looking at a job in Wisconsin and she will need wheels.

The area she is looking at apparently has unplowed packed snowy streets during a significant part of the winter.

Her current car only has 260,000 miles on it and is already falling apart.  Sheesh!  Head gasket leak to boot.  

They don't make them like they never did!

The current car will not pass the auto inspection where she is heading, so it is beginning to be time to consider another set of wheels.

Suggestions?


I am thinking all-wheel-drive but I have never actually driven an all-wheel-drive car.

Rear wheel drive in snow = spinning back wheels.  Been there.

Front wheel drive in snow = great traction BUT can spin in a circle in a fraction of a second with inadvertent engine braking (I've done that twice driving slowly on packed snow while slowing down at a curve just before a stop sign).


I'd like to guide her to the safest thing she can drive.  She is a novice at snow-driving.


Thank you,

Epaminondas

[gunug]

I like my Toyota Highlander which has on demand 4WD; not the best for fuel economy but I some of the newer one's are hybrid.  I think it's a good sized vehicle for a family of four or it has a good amount of carry space with the back seats folded down!

[sandbox]

I suggested these to Krissel, before her Nissan purchase. http://www.subaru.com/
Affordable, economical and reliable AWD. One of the best snow vehicles, which can be demonstrated by their high volume sales in ski areas around the world.

http://www.subaru-global.com/about/history/

[Al]

Although we don't have snow, we do have mud and sand.  I do alot of sand and lava rocks in my K5 Blazer.

IAWSB, Subarus gotta be one of the best for snow or any serious weather related conditions for a sedan, stationwagon or small SUV.  I think the model is a Outback or Forester.

Or try one of these spiffy new Toyota FJ's!    The reviews I have read and seen on these are stellar.



Just make sure what ever you choose has limited slip differential front and rear axles or at the very least a full locker in the rear.

[krissel]

The problem with the Subarus are that they are AWD all the time which really saps the mpg. My sister has an Outback and gets way lower mileage than I do with my Murano (on demand AWD) which is a heavier vehicle.  

One thing to check is whether the manufacturer demands that the vehicle undergoes the 'recommended' or 'required' mileage tuneups in order to maintain the warranty. I found a few fine print items which would end up costing an awful lot in reading through some of the manufacturers' booklets. My sister is being taken for a ride with all the 'required' maintenance routines. I'm not sure she needs them or not as I don't know what Subaru really demands. Her dealer has her convinced she needs to do so.

As to braking, make sure the vehicle has ABS and possibly vehicle stability drive which both add to keeping it under control in all weather conditions.

You might go to someplace like Edmunds.com and search for threads that discuss driving in snow. Nothing like getting it from those who slog through the white stuff a lot..

[Al]

Gas mileage?  Hmmm, my K5 will get less gas mileage than your nice Murano!    A lot less..... Glad I only really use it for recreation use.

About the warrenty and scheduled maintenance, yes, you are required to do so to uphold the warrenty.  But, you do not have to have the dealer service center do it.  Have her go to a reputable garage that would cost less than the dealer and have them do it.  Or in my case, I do it myself and then some.  Also, make sure she keeps a maintenance log to prove to her dealer that she has been doing all the required maintenance in case any warrenty work needs to be done.

QUOTE(krissel @ Jul 15 2006, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem with the Subarus are that they are AWD all the time which really saps the mpg. My sister has an Outback and gets way lower mileage than I do with my Murano (on demand AWD) which is a heavier vehicle.  

One thing to check is whether the manufacturer demands that the vehicle undergoes the 'recommended' or 'required' mileage tuneups in order to maintain the warranty. I found a few fine print items which would end up costing an awful lot in reading through some of the manufacturers' booklets. My sister is being taken for a ride with all the 'required' maintenance routines. I'm not sure she needs them or not as I don't know what Subaru really demands. Her dealer has her convinced she needs to do so.

Back on subject.  Sorry.

AWD does not necessarily mean that you will still get traction to all four tires all the time.  Even if you have limited slip differentials, it does still slip and will eventually give way to the tire with the least amount of traction.  This is where there is a big difference between open diffs (planetary gears), limited slip and a full locking differential.  What is nice about todays cars is the good ones have computer controlled differentials and drivetrains (traction control) where the computer will do the thinking and direct power to the tire/s with the most traction.  Nice feature.

Here's a great example of how active traction control can work wonders.

http://www.toyota.com/fjcruiser/specs.html

Go to active traction control and click on the link for "click here to see A-TRAC in action"

[sandbox]

forester/impreza

2007  Subaru   Impreza AWD

 EPA Fuel Economy
   
   
Fuel Type
   
Regular Gasoline
   
MPG (city)
   
23
        
MPG (highway)
   
28
        
MPG (combined)
   
25

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm

2006  Nissan   Murano AWD
   

 EPA Fuel Economy
   
   
Fuel Type
   
Regular Gasoline
   
MPG (city)
   
19
        
MPG (highway)
   
24
        
MPG (combined)
   
21

Kris a friend has one and she has the local shop pick it up from her office for scheduled maintenance.

QUOTE

Your Maintenance Responsibilities
It is your responsibility to have all scheduled inspection and maintenance services performed at the times and mileages recommended at the back of this booklet and to retain proof that inspection and maintenance services are performed when recommended. One method of proof is for you to have each maintenance service record contained in this Booklet validated at the proper time or mileage by the Authorized SUBARU Dealer or other service facility performing the service. You are also responsible for checking such items as fluid levels and tire pressures regularly.

http://www.subaru.com/owners/warranty/index.jsp

cars101 http://www.cars101.com/

[jcarter]

We have an ancient GMC Suburban with the big engine, and you can put that thing in 4WD and into low range if needed and get through most anything.  We dont generally need it here in SE Massachusetts, but we got the vehicle used for not much $ and its served us very well over the last 12 years.
It gets 17 MPG.  We dont use it all the time around our little town, use our Fords mostly.
But its great for trips or taking a load of grandkids and dogs on a venture to Maine, and tow a boat trailer too..
I would not suggest the GMC for a commuter vehicle however, its too big. My brother said it has its own zip code.  He drives a Toyota 4WD pickup, and that is a very versitile truck.
Lots of my friends have the Toyota Highlanders and love them for all driving situations. One of our kids works for Toyota and they are all good cars, except the new hybrids require lots of maintenance.
 My brother has a Cobra, which I hate!
Jane

[RHPConsult]

QUOTE(jcarter @ Jul 16 2006, 05:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would not suggest the GMC for a commuter vehicle however, its too big. My brother said it has its own zip code.

Your brother has a way with words, Jane, which I plan, enthusiastically, to appropriate, since we have some friends who have loved their succession of Surburbans, almost beyond reason. I can hardly wait . . .      

[kbeartx]

QUOTE(Epaminondas @ Jul 15 2006, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She is a novice at snow-driving.

IMO, experience driving in slippery stuff is the only way to make her a safe driver in such conditions.  

The type of car is of much less importance.

That said, having grown up in the NYC suburbs and gone to college near Boston, I have a LOT of personal experience driving on slippery surfaces, and I prefer the dynamics of a small, front-wheel-drive vehicle [Honda, for example] in which the engine [hence most of the weight] is right over the drive wheels.

 - KB

[jcarter]

Yes, tis indeed a heavy and large vehicle.   My husband calls it "the subdivision".
But it sure serves its purpose for this family.  Having other vehicles for ordinary or daily use is the way to go.  We have friends who feel the need to purchase a new car when ever they want one, and that gets really expensive.  We prefer to own and maintain older cars, thus able to have more than one.  Also, the newer a car is, the more difficult to service them yourself.
Being retired reduces the need for the newer fancier ones too.
Gotta have something to carry the bikes, kayaks, canoes, tow the trailers, and all the other stuff though.
Jane

Quick edit to add,  Our kids in Boston have a Honda accord, its just perfect for them, and theyve got the good public transportation in the city too.

[bil207]

In winter I travel back and forth from Long Island N.Y. to my home in Lake Placid N.Y. in my Honda CR-V w/4 wd and am more than satsified with it's performance over ice and snow.

One thing that most people over look is the importance of a really good set (4) of winter (not all-weather) tires, even on non- awd vehicles for maximum accelerating, steering and braking traction on snow and ice covered roads.

[swhitset]

I would just buy whatever car you like and be sure to have good tires.  I have lived in Wisconsin my whole life.  Driving successfully in the snow is more a function of the driver than the car.  Just remember to drive slower.  You shouldn't be having to slow down a lot at the the curves if you aren't going too fast in the first place.

I drive an '05 4WD Dodge Ram Quad cab.  My wife drives an older Buick Century Limited with FWD.  Neither one of us has much trouble in the winter.  I only have the truck to pull a boat, otherwise I would get a more economical FWD car.  

I want to stress that good all weather tires is most important.  If you have a car with low profile sport tires, a set of snow tires are in order.

Steve

[weldiger]

Having had some experience in driving various types of vehicles in several states over a period of somewhat more than 50 years, and being more than 50 miles away from any of the posters so far - I am qualified as an expert.
I have driven in North and South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Kansas, Missouri, and Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina.  Also in several 'southern states' where snow and ice are rare.  Two wheel conventional drive, with 200 # of sand over each rear wheel. Numerous front wheel drive, and Subaru AWD.
I have been stuck in snow with every other vehicle I have ever owned or leased.  I have my second Subaru, and have yet to be stuck with either one.  In the mountains of WNC where I have been for the past 23 years, there are almost as many Subarus, as any other make.  They don't usually last much more than 15 years, as they rust out from all the salt on the roads.
However with 16" wheels, 4 wheel disk brakes, ABS, very responsive power steering, and 4 speed automatic transmission, I feel safe & comfortable driving.  Mileage in the mountains is nothing to shout about, 24-28 actual.  But I can go as far as I want to drive without stopping, on a tank of gas.  So I am fairly well satisfied.
 

[kps]

Two points already mentioned are very important:

Al mentioned the differential in FWD/AWD vehicles. FWD without a limited slip diff is useless. Computer controlled diffs I'm not familiar with. My Ford F150 in FWD has great traction and plows through anything.

Steve mentioned the other point. The driver is the key. For decades people did fine with rear-wheel drive, no ABS, no big SUVs and no fancy tires. A light foot and gentle steering will get you through any snow...unless you're a rally driver and comfortable going through curves sideways.  

You will also be surprised how much actual traction you can have on a snow packed road when it's cold enough with 'dry' snow. Problems arise when when you get 'wet' snow with warn/cold cycling of the weather. Cold tires on hard packed snow at -20 my comfort zone is 60-70 miles per hour...and that's in a tractor-trailer with no ABS, no FWD and a wagon that could easily slap me "behind-the-ear".

But do get your lady a decent AWD or on demand FWD wehicle for her comfort and safety. Every bit counts.